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Old 19-04-2017, 15:42   #31
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

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Originally Posted by toddster8 View Post
If I somehow got stuck in storm conditions and the bars were closed, I would be heading out to gain sea room.
Or just head upstairs to your room?
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Old 19-04-2017, 16:14   #32
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

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Originally Posted by Sunsetrider View Post
Or just head upstairs to your room?
Lol, the sofa in a seaway
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Old 19-04-2017, 16:22   #33
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

I am struck by the long time the skipper was at the helm. There are some on this forum who think one of the skipper's many responsibilities is to train his family to manage the boat (and call him when they have questions about anything).

On our boat, protecting rest and sleep is a very high priority, too. I'm thinking that, for the future, the OP might consider that a delay of plans (that allowed him to rest) is preferable to getting caught so tired he's seeing things that aren't there. I think he did absolutely the right thing to not try and enter the marina at night and in a storm. It was the best decision he could make at the time.

If you have adequate ground tackle, anchoring can be the best option, or gaining sea room. Given the fatigue situation, anchoring was the better option in this case.

A whole lot will depend on where this happens. For instance, there are few all weather harbors between Washington State and Los Angeles, Calif. San Francisco Bay can usually be entered, but during winter storms, could be unsafe. While being close to land may be attractive, that's a lot of coast where you'd be safer outside the shipping lanes.

Going into places in the dark is not my favorite thing. It's hard to perceive distances correctly, difficult to see dark, protruding objects. We have gone into new-to-us anchorages in the dark, using radar, and generally find that we have anchored MUCH further out than was absolutely necessary.

In all our years of cruising, we were anchored for one named storm, and were at anchor once for a vigorous frontal passage--approx gusts to 60. In the first instance, we had to leave when the eye came over us and the heretofore safe anchorage became a lee shore; and in the second, we dragged and had to re-anchor, using two anchors. Turned out we had anchored in gooey mud, rather than better holding. Learned something from each situation.

Ann

I'd like to add that, sometimes bad stuff happens, and you just have to cope. period. No harm, no foul.
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Old 19-04-2017, 21:19   #34
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

You are an inexperienced boat owner on a 40 foot trawler with high windage, and are attempting to pick up a mooring or dock, or anchor in storm conditions. Which are winds 54 to 73 MPH. Who do have on board as crew ? Is the wind blowing you away from the dock. Who is handling your dock lines, you wife . or are you single handing. Do you have experienced crew ? There is a lot coming into this picture.

And, the recommendation is to tie up to a FUEL DOCK....filled with gas and diesel fuel, lines and pumps. Just something to think about.

The harbor will be filled with whitecaps, and docking anyplace could result it great damage to boat and docks, and maybe , inured or overboard crew, holed vessel slamming into the dock, tearing out dock cleats, or with the added weight of your boat, damaging the docks them selves .

You have no idea of the stability of the docks, pilings, cleats, etc. Trying to anchor in those conditions can also be extremely problematic. What is the bottom quality, how deep, how much room do you have and what is your swing room when the wind shifts with frontal passage, other vessels, docks, or land .

Best advice, do not put yourself into that position in the first place. be aware of the weather situation, and plan to be in a safe harbor well ahead of time, or do not go out into expected heavy weather conditions. Or ride it out at sea but be aware of lee shores and reefs.

As to moorings, you have no idea as to the condition of the mooring, or if it has been maintained, or that the owner is coming in to pick it up. As to end ties or empty slips, as well as moorings, STAY ON BOARD. You may be asked to leave and you should be standing watch to take care of any problems.

With all of the magical electronic aids as to being aware of approaching weather, you should be able to plan well ahead in these days and times.

Does that always work. Nope. Mother nature can form up a horrendous surprise storm without any warning, and you may have to do whatever it takes to survive. Know what you and your boat and crew can handle.

In foreign ports, the weather broadcasts are in their language, not necessarily in your native language, and you need to stay well ahead of the situation with your own vessels weather forecasting equipment. You need to be able to read the warning signs, wind direction, barometic pressure drop, swells rolling in, as well as your boats weather station information. Stay ahead of the power curve if possible.

Give the harbies or the coasties a call, have charts of the harbor or bay, they may be able to direct you to a safe anchorage area, or even an open guest slip. Can you use a bahamian moor with two bow anchors .

We have been caught only once with no warning. And that was in Gustavia Harbor, St. Barts. Clear skies, normal winds, beautiful day. An unforercast low pressure system ( tropcal depression _ formed over the islands, within an hour tall steep , dark walls of rain clouds and wind arose. No one was expecting any inclement weather. It had been sunshine, trades, and great sailing .

We had been briefed by the bare boat charter company, not to pull into any slips in Gustavia Harbor. But pick up a mooring inside or anchor.


when we entered , before all hell broke loose, All of the moorings were taken, and some boats had anchored inside the mooring field next to the moored vessels. The cruising guide recommended the right side of the harbor for mooring. And that is where all of the vessels were located.

I did not want to anchor in a mooring field, and so we motored over to the left side of Gustavia Harbor and laid out our anchor that was 150 feet of chain and 150 feet of rode. 300 feet total . We were anchored in about 25 to 30 feet of water, with plenty of scope and away from other vessels.

Then, a dark black wall of clouds approached, the skies became over cast. We could not speak French to get any WX report, and we had no magical wx fax, or maps .

I told Erica that I did not like the looks of the weather, but she is from Mass., I am a california boy....I stood anchor watch while she went down below to shower...her plan was going out dancing on saturday night at the clubs. She gets all squeeky clean, and I am watching his weather system approaching. This may turn out not to be good.

Now, she being the Admiral, says for me to to take a shower and she will stand anchor watch. OK, I take a quick shower, came out and spied the rum sitting on the galley counter, and poured a jigger or two into a plastic glass. Stark naked.

About that time, I feel a strong wind slam into the boat. Erica shouts, " Den, we are dragging." I grab my cut offs and go tearing up the companion way ladder, and see that we are indeed dragging. The wind is howling, and I race up to the anchor locker to let more rode out and reset the anchor. A great huge and heavy monster for our 37 foot sloop.

The engine was running to charge up the batteries. I had No shoes, no gloves, just shorts. Erica is at the helm.

About the time I take the line loose to pay out more scope, the wind increases in great force, rain is going sideways, visibility has dropped to a few yards. The anchor line is smoking thru my hands, and Erica , at the helm, asks, if I want her up at the bow.

" No, Full power, full power ! " Now, this was the only time, that I ever took out a boat that I was unfamilar with that I did not, prior to leaving, flake out the chain and rode on deck and , check for chafing, pace off the chain and rode, and look to see that the bitter end of the anchor line was secured in the anchor locker.

With full power, the boat slowed enough for me to get some wraps around the windlass and cleat the anchor line down. I closed the locker. We had stopped and were no longer dragging.

Rain is horizontal, we can only see a few feet, the wind was up in the 50's to 60's. We kept the engine on and in gear to take some of the load off. This all began at about
3 pm in the afternoon. The VHF was on 16, and other boaters were asking for help.
This is not the U.SA. and those skippers were on their own....deal with it !

We both stood anchor / helm watch until about 2:00 am, The wind began to slack, and the rain lightened up, we eased the gear shift into neutral and found we were no longer dragging. Winds had peaked at 64 mph. ( 74 plus is hurricane ) That is a lot of air.

Finally, the winds receded and the boiling with white caps harbor became more calm.
We crashed down below.

Good thing that we did not try to anchor in that mooring field. Others did , but I cannot control what others decide to do.

The next morning dawned clear, near calm, and beautiful. Our bearings that I had noted in the log had not changed. So, we dinked ashore. Talked with the port authority, to see if this system was done. Well, remember that we did not speak french, and we had to talk with other sailors and local folks who could speak english.

Two of the bare boats with the same company, who were told not to pick up a slip, had ignored that order, they came in well before us, and when the wind hit, lines were slack, boats crashed into each other and the stern to the quay. Ome lady fell overboard between the boats tying to fend off,.....back at the base, they had all of the staff, including office personnel on board the tied up boats, and it was a mess, engines running, lines fouling, hulls bashing, rigging tangled, and quite a chaoitic scene.

Other residents of St. Barts told us , that several local fishing boats had not reported back, and they were concerned. Heard no more about the missing boats by the time we departed a couple of day later. These were seasoned skippers, so all turned out well.

We had a beautiful sunday, and rented a car, and explored St. Barts, and partied down at Le Select, and a couple of other marina restaurants.

Two days later, it was time to sail to Anguilla, so we haul up on the anchor rode, and the chain. The anchor is not breaking out. I can see it snagged on something a couple of feet below the water. So, into the dink, knife in hand, I pull myself up to the chain....

Sometimes the god of pure luck scramble to our aid. The heavy anchor flukes were caught on a thick mooring line eye. Yep, an old mooring line had been lying flat on the bottom sand. When the ripping wind tore in, our anchor dragged across the bottom and the flukes snagged on the eye of that very, very thick mooring line eye.

That is what saved our okoles from huge problems. Since the line was old and lying on the bottom in about 30 feet or so, it was of no use to anyone, so I cut thru it, and we were free. The 2 to 3 inch diameter old mooring line dropped away and sank and we slowly motored out to sea, hauled up the sails, and were on our way.

No one, not even the port authorities were aware of any tropical depression, it just formed in our immediate area.


Oh, and as the anchor line was rapidly slipping thru my hands when that wind bashed into us, I thought of losing all of the chain and line that I had not inspected when checking out the vessels systems. The next morning after the storm, I opened up the anchor locker hatch, we had maybe 3 feet of line left....and the bitter end was secured. Still, foolish of me, to not inspect the chain, line and security of the bitter end of the anchor line well before departing the charter outfit docks in St. Matin..

I guess the best advice is to avoid problems in the first place, be prepared, and not put yourself into extremes.

But if necessary, we would.

1. Call the harbies for a slip or dock assignment ( If possible), or anchoring area that would give you the best protection and holding ground. Refer to your charts as well the cruising guide.

2. Maybe find a down wind end tie, so that the boat is not being blown off the dock, but with loads of boat fenders in place, be pushed toward the side tie. A guest dock at a waterfront bar might work as well.

3. Be practiced in all types of anchoring methods, with stout anchors, and plenty of chain and rode. Also, have a second bow anchor and be practiced in using a bahamian moor.

4. Do what you need to do. And that might be to remain well out a sea away from land . But, again, be ahead of the power curve, and avoid major problems in the first place.

5. Entering a harbor with large seas rolling in, could be extremely dangerous, and possibly broaching, and wind up out of control, and winding up on the breakwater rocks. Shallow water, and higher waves at the channel entrance. Bad Ju-Ju .
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Old 20-04-2017, 00:31   #35
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

[QUOTE=belizesailor;2374899]Also...increase your weather knowledge. When todays weather forecasting resources are used properly it is rare to get caught unaware by sustained foul weather

Agree with this -- weather for us is everything and in the old days the admiral called a weather geek as I would check multiple weather forecast and even log the weather for several days in advance - she does not do that anymore and now says did you check so and so forecast or that forecast?

When we were in Russia we had a 29 day visa and missed the first 2 days as we had to wait weather in Poti Georgia - then once there we were watching the weather in the western Black Sea as we had a 350nm sail to Odessa - and I kept seeing a front coming and I kept a written log of each days forecast and saw it did not change - 350nm=3 days - we had to leave 3 days before our visa expired as in Russia 29 means 29days period and if we wanted to stay out of trouble we could not go into Crimea - so we left 3 days early to miss the frontal passage - and we did - the day after we got into Odessa the front came through with 50+k winds and white caps in the harbor - we hi 5 each other as we got one right

With modern forecasting it is rare that you should get caught out and to be honest we are to old to get beat up and to much of cowards to be caught out - does it happen sometimes? Yep - we got hammered just outside the Messina Straits when we had good conditions all day and just before the entrance we got hit hard from out of the blue and one of the scariest times in 10 years out here - we did manage to make a mooring field just east of the straits and waited for 2 days for the blow to end and it finally showed later that evening on the forecast

But overall there is little reason to be caught out - can happen but if you are careful you can really mitigate the chances
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Old 20-04-2017, 00:36   #36
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

As MCM said, a vessel in distress can't be denied safe anchorage or moorage if available. Oh, and check out all usable safe harbors and anchorages along your route on Google Earth. Print copies to have onboard. You don't want any multiple jetty mazes to surprise you as one person mentioned.
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Old 20-04-2017, 09:22   #37
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

You don't need to be at a dock because of a storm. Its often safer to ride it out offshore. A boat is not a car. The ocean is not a highway. Brief storms or fronts may pass with a few strong gusts, some lightning and waves. It happens. A power boat would have even less trouble than a sailboat.

Boats cross oceans, and there are no marinas mid-ocean. There are techniques for handling storms on a boat, at night, at sea.

And we have weather forecasts. Every boater stays aware of the forecast and acts accordingly.

Personally, I like to be at a protected anchorage long before the storm arrives, if possible. Then watch the thunder and lightning show...the forces of nature...the greatest show on earth.
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Old 20-04-2017, 09:30   #38
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
...part of knowing how to handle it in foul weather...dont get trapped on a lee shore to start with.

Sometimes though it happens, I was in my Brothers 45' Sportfisherman maybe 20 years ago off of Tampa Bay and a bad squall blew in, it was bad enough that we were not making any ground at all, we were being driven back right into the shipping channel, where the water gets awfully skinny.
Luckily the squall blew over before we ran out of water
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Old 20-04-2017, 09:55   #39
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
I am struck by the long time the skipper was at the helm. There are some on this forum who think one of the skipper's many responsibilities is to train his family to manage the boat (and call him when they have questions about anything).


Ann

I'd like to add that, sometimes bad stuff happens, and you just have to cope. period. No harm, no foul.
Hi Ann,
If you are referring to me (I am only assuming that you may not, not that you are). This wasn't a family trip, this was a delivery of my own vessel to a new port. I took at job in Maine and I needed a place to stay, so I brought this sailboat there to live on during the work week and return home during the weekend.

Anyway, as I said this wasn't a family trip. I hired a crewmember to come along with me, but I discovered too late how useless this person really was. She was unknowledgeable, which in itself isn't so bad, but she was also unable to follow orders and questioned every D**M thing I asked her to do.
Said things like "this is good enough" when I clearly didn't think so.

There is one thing she did help me with. I learned very quickly that I can easily single hand this boat, even in a gale.

So, again _if_ you were referring to the experience I shared earlier in the thread, this is the explanation about why I was at the helm so often and for so long.
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Old 20-04-2017, 11:27   #40
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

In emergencies it is OK to tie up to a dock, pick up a free mooring, drop the hook (space allowing) etc.

If there are working boats (tugs, fishers, etc) it is often OK to tie up alongside till early light and only then transfer to a berth.

At times there is a fuel dock or a reception pontoon - then you can tie up there and ask the nearest business on what to do next.

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Old 20-04-2017, 12:16   #41
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

i enjoy sailing prefrontal winds---UNLESS that weather glitch is named... then i hunker in a cane hole and hope for no damages or deaths.
prefrontal winds are fun to sail, gives my boat a great lift and good sailing.
but, then my boat can take that. so can i.
i have sailed thru t boomers in gom--that was piece of cake-- some a lil scary--i am allergic to lightning-- but the sailing was incredible. extreme fronts are not recommended for sailing a light 37 ft seidelmann. oopsy--we did it anyway. we sailed severe fronts and went into st joseph bay for extreme front.
in southwest mexico, thunder and lightning mean the growing cane is rapidly intensifying. oops best be in a safe place already. the growing named events slide up coast of mexico giving the much needed rain that only comes with a name attached.
south by ixtapa and zihuat and more south these are only invests. not an issue.
going to sea in a storm here is pretty much playing bounty vs sandy.
and then there was patricia.........
most of these growing events rapidly intensify off cabo corrientes--is how la paz was advised they should only expect 79 mph winds in odile., i watched that one r i into cat 3 before slamming baja. so much for rumors of anticipated wind speeds.
so--before claiming ALL storms are to be spent in open ocean, remember these are 300-660 miles across. diameter not radius.. they overlap land and out to sea.
here, when a storm is coming, you should already be in a safe place. we were not within the cone of patricia-we were outside that.
HOWEVER, as it hit la perula, its eye was wobbly, meaning INTENSIFYING as it hit --first la perula then isla navidad-- so much for cones of death. hahahahaha
she was a bitch. those at sea were unable to see anything at all except white. no up no down no side or other side--all white and howly. merchant ships were instructed to head south -- one didnopt get out in time to so do-- ship --bulk grain carrier-- was blindly seent outof control into th e little beach other siude of the isla navidad marina-- went between rock outcroppings magically and landed parallel to that SMALL beach before breaking in two. no one damaged no one dead. no oil in ocean.
so, if you wish to follow bounty down-- find a safe place to stay during anything gonna be named.
sailing prefrontals of regular fronts is fun, tho, in my boat. even huge seas. love this heavy gal.

the marinas in safe locations are good about receiving those needing a safe harbor.
i noticed in gom that before a bit of storming happens, tugs n tows sit on side of icw moored, tied to land and anchored in water. when these guys stop running, itis time to anchor and hunker. there are good spots for this practice.
do not attempt crossing mobile bay during or just before a t-storm--shallow water makes horrible experience with much damage and havoc.
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Old 20-04-2017, 15:30   #42
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Sometimes though it happens, I was in my Brothers 45' Sportfisherman maybe 20 years ago off of Tampa Bay and a bad squall blew in, it was bad enough that we were not making any ground at all, we were being driven back right into the shipping channel, where the water gets awfully skinny.
Luckily the squall blew over before we ran out of water
True, you can get caught by surprise, but usually you have some idea what the weather is going to do...especially these days.
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Old 20-04-2017, 16:08   #43
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

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Hi Ann,
If you are referring to me (I am only assuming that you may not, not that you are). This wasn't a family trip, this was a delivery of my own vessel to a new port. I took at job in Maine and I needed a place to stay, so I brought this sailboat there to live on during the work week and return home during the weekend.

Anyway, as I said this wasn't a family trip. I hired a crewmember to come along with me, but I discovered too late how useless this person really was. She was unknowledgeable, which in itself isn't so bad, but she was also unable to follow orders and questioned every D**M thing I asked her to do.
Said things like "this is good enough" when I clearly didn't think so.

There is one thing she did help me with. I learned very quickly that I can easily single hand this boat, even in a gale.

So, again _if_ you were referring to the experience I shared earlier in the thread, this is the explanation about why I was at the helm so often and for so long.
Thanks for the explanation, Scot. Your situation was far worse than if you had singlehanded. We hear so many "poor crew" stories, put us right off taking someone else along to be responsible for. At least, we trust each other, while an unknown is, well, unknown.

Yours is really a good response to the OP. Refuge in a port is impossible, sometimes, and outside is much safer, sometimes. And, despite planning, life interferes with our plans, bad stuff does happen.

You got anchored in time. No harm, no foul. It was a landing you walked away from. It was successful.

Ann
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Old 20-04-2017, 16:22   #44
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pirate Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

Originally Posted by toddster8
If I somehow got stuck in storm conditions and the bars were closed, I would be heading out to gain sea room.

Damn right.. no point going in if the bars are shut.. grab searoom, heave to and crack open the rum instead..
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Old 20-04-2017, 21:12   #45
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Re: Taking refuge in a port during a storm

The hell you can't.
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