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Old 06-09-2013, 22:19   #61
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Re: Taking in the mainsail without an engine

"I sail a 70' boat where you cannot reef beam/broad reaching. As soon as the main is on the spreaders, that's that and you can't haul it down. And if you ease the halyard the main does end on the spreaders"

I only sail on a 37' boat and I have the same problem so if Evans and others can do it on most any point of sail, I'ld like to learn more. I do sailhand most of the time and don't trust the auto pilot and the wind vane is not hooked up for most day sails.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:39   #62
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Re: Taking in the mainsail without an engine

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Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
"I sail a 70' boat where you cannot reef beam/broad reaching. As soon as the main is on the spreaders, that's that and you can't haul it down. And if you ease the halyard the main does end on the spreaders"

I only sail on a 37' boat and I have the same problem so if Evans and others can do it on most any point of sail, I'ld like to learn more. I do sailhand most of the time and don't trust the auto pilot and the wind vane is not hooked up for most day sails.
I have the same problem on my small yacht if I try and take the main down while running all I would do is shred the sail on the spreaders,thats if I could even force it down.Which is unlikely in any wind over 10 knots.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:22   #63
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It's almost impossible to get a full batten main to fall into the lazyjacks will sailing off the wind. .
Hmmmm, that's a very good point. I love heaving to, but am planning to fit jacks. I had no thought of this.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:35   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
"I sail a 70' boat where you cannot reef beam/broad reaching. As soon as the main is on the spreaders, that's that and you can't haul it down. And if you ease the halyard the main does end on the spreaders"

I only sail on a 37' boat and I have the same problem so if Evans and others can do it on most any point of sail, I'ld like to learn more. I do sailhand most of the time and don't trust the auto pilot and the wind vane is not hooked up for most day sails.
Many people reef like this (because it taught this way in many books and courses):#1 drop the halyard, #2 secure the tack, #3 tension the halyard, #4 tension the clew reef. However that way will end up with the main draging on the spreaders if trying to do it while sailing deep. And you may get stuck at step #1 or #2.

If sailing deep, we do the following: #1a drop a few meters of halyard, #1b tension the clew reef line (this tensions the leach and pulls the main off the spreader - if it does not get the main enough off the spreader then pull the boom in a little), #1c pull in the tack line, #2 repeat until the reef is in. This WILL get the main down/reefed whie off the wind. It is a bit slower than the above approach, but not much.

If single handing without an autopilot, then I understand the hove to approach.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:57   #65
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Re: Taking in the mainsail without an engine

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I have the same problem on my small yacht if I try and take the main down while running all I would do is shred the sail on the spreaders,thats if I could even force it down.Which is unlikely in any wind over 10 knots.
If you have a reefing arrangement with lines to cringles in the luff at each reef, and likewise to the leech, your objective is to maintain tension on the leech to keep it from being blown forward. If a sail slug jams, hoisting the main a bit will usually free it and the main will be drawn down further by your pulling down on the leech and luff reef line. If not, going forward to the mast and pulling down on the luff may be required to free the slug. Using a winch to draw down the leech is useful in stronger wind.

Sailors who follow the rule of reefing when they first think of it will rarely have problems reefing this way. Each successive reef presents a smaller sail area to the wind and going to the second and third reef should be possible as the wind strengthens.

Use your preventers made taught on both sides to hold the boom amidship. You do have preventers,don't you? My preventers go to the end of the boom.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:03   #66
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Re: Taking in the mainsail without an engine

Thanks Evans, that is the way I thought it would be done. I orginally had all reef lines run to the cockpit and that tack line would help bring the sail down, however there was so much friction to overcome that I ended up putting everything back at the mast. In doing so I no longer have a tack line to pull that tack down to the boom and rely on just a slack halyard to get the tack into the horn.

One other comment about the main. Last year when bringing the boat down the Cheaspeake to be hauled out, I had difficultity in raising the main. I'ld been sailing for some 6 hours under yankee alone and when the wind moderated I tried turning up into the wind to raise the main to continue my journey. I did not use the engine and having done this many times before without any problem, I was surprised that I could not get the boat turned up enough to get the mail sail past the spreader. I expect that I was in a current which was sufficient to negate any advantage from a half risen main which would push the bow into the wind. That current could not have been much more than a knot, but no matter what I tried, I ended up dousing the main and finally as the wind moderated more took in the yankee and continued under the iron genny.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:13   #67
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Re: Taking in the mainsail without an engine

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Thanks Evans, that is the way I thought it would be done. I orginally had all reef lines run to the cockpit and that tack line would help bring the sail down, however there was so much friction to overcome that I ended up putting everything back at the mast. In doing so I no longer have a tack line to pull that tack down to the boom and rely on just a slack halyard to get the tack into the horn.

One other comment about the main. Last year when bringing the boat down the Cheaspeake to be hauled out, I had difficultity in raising the main. I'ld been sailing for some 6 hours under yankee alone and when the wind moderated I tried turning up into the wind to raise the main to continue my journey. I did not use the engine and having done this many times before without any problem, I was surprised that I could not get the boat turned up enough to get the mail sail past the spreader. I expect that I was in a current which was sufficient to negate any advantage from a half risen main which would push the bow into the wind. That current could not have been much more than a knot, but no matter what I tried, I ended up dousing the main and finally as the wind moderated more took in the yankee and continued under the iron genny.
If you had sufficient room and depth could you have have jibed and raised the main going downwind? This presumes you could have jibed using the current to your advantage. Also, once the engine was on, would it have been desirable to use it for turning into the wind to hoist the sail?
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:22   #68
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Re: Taking in the mainsail without an engine

Not sure if sailing downwind would work, but I'm sure that if I wanted to spend more time in trying to get that main raised I could have. However, in doing so I was sailing off course. Also when I did finally turn on the engine, there was no point in sailing futher since the wind had died.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:28   #69
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Re: Taking in the mainsail without an engine

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Not sure if sailing downwind would work, but I'm sure that if I wanted to spend more time in trying to get that main raised I could have. However, in doing so I was sailing off course. Also when I did finally turn on the engine, there was no point in sailing futher since the wind had died.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:54   #70
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Sailors who follow the rule of reefing when they first think of it will rarely have problems reefing this way. Each successive reef presents a smaller sail area to the wind and going to the second and third reef should be possible as the wind strengthens.
In practice, this is not always true.

Just for example . . . 2am squalls are pretty common in the tropics. The wind can go from 15 to 40 pretty quickly. You 'should' see them and reef ahead, but in thecdark, when tired, we do occasionally make a mistake and get caught with full sail.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:58   #71
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In doing so I no longer have a tack line to pull that tack down to the boom and rely on just a slack halyard to get the tack into the horn.
If no tack line, I sometime use a boat hook to pull down on the sail slides. It usually works ( on a 'normal' size main)
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:05   #72
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Re: estarzinger

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In practice, this is not always true.

Just for example . . . 2am squalls are pretty common in the tropics. The wind can go from 15 to 40 pretty quickly. You 'should' see them and reef ahead, but in thecdark, when tired, we do occasionally make a mistake and get caught with full sail.
I always reef just before sunset and remove my sun awning.
Especially in areas affected by squalls.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:37   #73
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Re: Taking in the mainsail without an engine

^^ good for you

Another common situation with sudden wind increase are wind acceleration zones around headlands or down valleys. The Canary Islands are known for this. You are ailing in 10kts, come by a point of land and get 30 within 50m. You "should" see this on the water and reef before hand, but ....

Another, less common for most cruising grounds, are the katabatic gusts you get around cold mountains.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:06   #74
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Re: Taking in the mainsail without an engine

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^^ good for you

Another common situation with sudden wind increase are wind acceleration zones around headlands or down valleys. The Canary Islands are known for this. You are ailing in 10kts, come by a point of land and get 30 within 50m. You "should" see this on the water and reef before hand, but ....

Another, less common for most cruising grounds, are the katabatic gusts you get around cold mountains.
Commonly known as 'bullets'. Sufficient research about planned destinations will normally unearth warnings about this potential hazard so reefing ahead of time is possible.
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