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Old 06-03-2015, 05:17   #91
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
I still question steering. The sailboat makes zero heading changes. The main is filling and dumping and the boat is making way. There is no significant sail pressure that I can see precluding a turning of the boat either upwind or downwind.

The video starts with 5 boat lengths perhaps. Possible room to head up.

But at the last seconds a turn even slightly downwind would have avoided the collision.
I think he was paralyzed with fear. And/or maybe not at the helm -- struggling with lines. Maybe he was very inexperienced, and thought that if he just let go the sheets, the boat would stop, like a dinghy does -- and he thought that he would avoid the collision like that. He was so concentrated on stopping the boat that he didn't think about steering.

If he was not running DDW, then of course, why didn't he simply head off? The only answer can be the above.
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Old 06-03-2015, 08:14   #92
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

The pressure on the sailboat is almost completely
in front of the keel. Even if the helm is all the way
over to port, the rudder is probably cavitating and
creating no turning moment. ie. can't head up.
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Old 06-03-2015, 08:32   #93
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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No, he's not on a beam reach. Notice that his sail is a full right angles to the boat and pressed hard on the spreader - sorry he's DDW or something very close. Looking at the full video, you'll see his forsail flappng around. Were he on a beam reach, his forsail sould have stayed to one side
Nope, the wind is beam on. If he was DDW then the main would not be flapping around like crazy. He was DDW at some point based on the pole.

Clearly he realised that he was on collision course and released the sheets to let the sails flog in the hope of loosing speed.
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Old 06-03-2015, 08:43   #94
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
The pressure on the sailboat is almost completely
in front of the keel. Even if the helm is all the way
over to port, the rudder is probably cavitating and
creating no turning moment. ie. can't head up.
That is what it looks to me ... he tries but can't head up and it is too late to do anything else. He tried hard, he fought hard doing the impossible maneuver for the conditions.

Doing nothing would probably be better ... the boat would head off on its own. Now, a shitty gybe following next is another chapter.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:13   #95
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
How does that relate to this thread, exactly?

I haven't the faintest idea.


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Old 06-03-2015, 09:27   #96
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Gotcha... didn't notice that.
So it all fell to bits before the ferry got in his way.....
The boat is quite definitely on a beam reach, maybe even slightly higher. Clues are the direction of the waves, the direction that flogging genoa has taken, and the luffing of the main.

He may have been on a run at one point, hence the pole, but not any more.

What I would do is furl the jib down to a really small size, even if I have to put the furling line on a winch. Then sail on the jib while the main luffs, on a close reach, and reef the main right down.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:55   #97
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

He can't bear away to port. The main will start pulling and luff him up again. ALso as he heels over as the main fills, he will luff up. The rudder cannot counteract these forces in a 50 knot wind with that amount of main up.

He cannot get head up into the wind, because he has that stonking great genoa flapping away.

He has a very limited amount of control unless he can get some sail down. He can't get the main down as it is against the stays and spreader and in 50 knots you won't shift it. He can't furl the genoa, the force is too great - even with a line on a winch. On my boat I can only furl the jib in anything over a F4 if I blanket it behind the main while heading dead down wind.

His only option is to let go the genoa althogether. It will be very messy and will come down in the water and potentially foul the prop. Only then it will be possible to head up into the wind a bit. And only then does he have a chance of getting the main down.

Looks like everything happened too quick and at the wrong moment.

I think most here have at some time or another been caught in weather where they wished they had stayed home.
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Old 06-03-2015, 20:15   #98
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

I've just finished reading this whole thread through again. What I think is that the skipper was unaware of what the roll cloud meant he should do (shorten sail), as cruising cat 44 suggested.

That having happened, I think it is likely that his rudder was overpowered (as suggested above, as well).

I wondered if he actually lost the sheet for the genoa due to flogging.

Imagine the guy/gal: everything they think of to try doesn't work! The boat's tearing itself up, the pole's banging against the forestay, the heads'l's shredding, and the rudder doesn't steer her! It's a big price to pay for ignorance or inattention.

Although the thread's been going for a couple of days, there doesn't seem to be any source of information about the incident.

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Old 06-03-2015, 20:57   #99
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post

I wondered if he actually lost the sheet for the genoa due to flogging.

We'll never know but based on the pole most agree he was wing on wing with a poled genny - crazy in those winds.

He could have accidentally gybed the Genoa and probably got flattened. Blew the genny sheet because it was backwinded and the pole was about to break the forestay.

When the boat stood up it was headed 90 degrees to the original course, out of control about to hit a ferry.
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Old 06-03-2015, 21:02   #100
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

This incident happened last Sunday. Here is a newspaper report about it No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au.

In the report the bloke who did the video said the ferry turned to port but could not turn any more as they were near Sow and Pigs. Sow and Pigs is a very shallow reef that separates the incoming and outgoing channels just south of the entrance to Sydney Harbour.
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Old 06-03-2015, 21:06   #101
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
No, he's not on a beam reach. Notice that his sail is a full right angles to the boat and pressed hard on the spreader - sorry he's DDW or something very close. Looking at the full video, you'll see his forsail flappng around. Were he on a beam reach, his forsail sould have stayed to one side
You're assuming he has the sails set correctly, but obviously they aren't. The wind is definitely on his beam, or very close to it. The waves and spray show it clearly.

He might have dumped his sheets to try to stop the boat. To me, he could easily have turned to port and gone behind the ferry. No idea why he didn't.
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Old 06-03-2015, 21:21   #102
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Originally Posted by clownfishsydney View Post
This incident happened last Sunday. Here is a newspaper report about it No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au.

In the report the bloke who did the video said the ferry turned to port but could not turn any more as they were near Sow and Pigs. Sow and Pigs is a very shallow reef that separates the incoming and outgoing channels just south of the entrance to Sydney Harbour.
I love the second still with the girl with her hand over her mouth. She must be about to puke over the graphic horror of watching a ball cap die - LOL...

I love, love, love you (we) Aussies.

"A boat crashed into a ferry and no one died. She'll be right mate! Now here's the weather report."

I can see the editor now. "Look, Gerry. Great video but a one sentence article ain't gonna cut it, mate. Fill it in with some weather and beachy sh!t."
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Old 06-03-2015, 22:24   #103
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Maybe he was reading a book like the douche bag that nearly hit me, then didn't even look up as we nearly collided.


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Old 06-03-2015, 22:29   #104
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Imagine the guy/gal: everything they think of to try doesn't work! The boat's tearing itself up, the pole's banging against the forestay, the heads'l's shredding, and the rudder doesn't steer her!
Sounds like a normal day on the water to me.
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Old 07-03-2015, 05:01   #105
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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People stuck with land and road concepts have trouble understanding that there is simply no such thing as "right of way" at sea. No one ever -- ever! -- has the right to just sail along and assume that the other vessel is solely responsible for avoiding the accident. This is radically different from being on the road. At sea, BOTH skippers are responsible for avoiding the accident. When an accident happens, there is a strong presumption that BOTH skippers violated the rules.
actually Dockhead, at least in this part of the world, it is the same as driving a car, it's just very few seem to understand the rule. Even in driving a car, the driver has an obligation in law to avoid an accident. The classic senario is getting collected when running a green traffic light and then saying, 'I saw him coming but I had right of way'.
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