Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-03-2015, 09:42   #46
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,748
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
So.... now we're discussing two dipsticks?
Indeed! You can't really have a collision without almighty screwups on both bridges.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 10:19   #47
Registered User
 
PangurBan's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 47
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFla Sailor View Post
Funny you should mention it as the captain of the ferry made no attempt to avoid the collision. This and the fact he wasn't constricted to a deep water channel means he also failed in his responsibility to avoid the collision. I think they are both at fault.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app




Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
PangurBan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 10:25   #48
Registered User
 
PangurBan's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 47
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFla Sailor View Post
Funny you should mention it as the captain of the ferry made no attempt to avoid the collision. This and the fact he wasn't constricted to a deep water channel means he also failed in his responsibility to avoid the collision. I think they are both at fault.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

The first COLREGS course I did had the instructor commencing with the following:
" Here lies the body of John O'Day
Who died maintaining his right of way
He was right, dead right as he sailed along
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong "


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
PangurBan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 10:31   #49
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,138
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

So let's see.... at 32 feet if I bump into a... say.... 50+ foot sailboat....it's all my fault.

Good to know. I'll file that in my internet seamanship rule book.
__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
four winds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 10:32   #50
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by PangurBan View Post
The first COLREGS course I did had the instructor commencing with the following:
" Here lies the body of John O'Day
Who died maintaining his right of way
He was right, dead right as he sailed along
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong "


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum


I imagine that ferry isn't able to make quick turns or speed changes. More than likely the ferry captain was thinking "That guy in that little sailboat isn't dumb enough to steer right into this ferry."

Turns out he was wrong.
__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 14:40   #51
Registered User
 
El Pinguino's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Punta Arenas ahorra
Boat: 39' Westerly Sealord
Posts: 3,952
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

From the ferry skipper's point of view....
Stuff probably started to go pear shaped about 5 seconds before the video starts.
We have no idea what was to port but an alteration to port wasn't going to achieve anything.
Go faster? Not going to happen.
Bearing is opening.... yacht is going to pass astern...maybe... well it almost did... so the ferry stopping engines or going astern isn't going to change anything... esp in the time available.
I don't think any enquiry ( I doubt if there will be one for such a minor incident ) would attach any blame whatsoever to the ferry skipper.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing... going by the pics posted of the approaching front the skipper did have notice that things were going to get 'interesting'. Maybe not keeping a good lookout astern... amazing how many people don't.

Getting rid of the sails.... furl the jib while still running DDW.... then ( in this case ) hard a starboard... hang on tight ( if the front is already on you ) ... haul in main sheet once across the wind... drop main. Not so easy on Sydney Harbour with boats, ferries and bricks all over the place.
El Pinguino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 14:52   #52
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,748
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by PangurBan View Post
The first COLREGS course I did had the instructor commencing with the following:
" Here lies the body of John O'Day
Who died maintaining his right of way
He was right, dead right as he sailed along
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong "


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
How does that relate to this thread, exactly?
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 14:56   #53
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,748
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
From the ferry skipper's point of view....
Stuff probably started to go pear shaped about 5 seconds before the video starts.
We have no idea what was to port but an alteration to port wasn't going to achieve anything.
Go faster? Not going to happen.
Bearing is opening.... yacht is going to pass astern...maybe... well it almost did... so the ferry stopping engines or going astern isn't going to change anything... esp in the time available.
I don't think any enquiry ( I doubt if there will be one for such a minor incident ) would attach any blame whatsoever to the ferry skipper.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing... going by the pics posted of the approaching front the skipper did have notice that things were going to get 'interesting'. Maybe not keeping a good lookout astern... amazing how many people don't.

Getting rid of the sails.... furl the jib while still running DDW.... then ( in this case ) hard a starboard... hang on tight ( if the front is already on you ) ... haul in main sheet once across the wind... drop main. Not so easy on Sydney Harbour with boats, ferries and bricks all over the place.
Well, we can't know -- none of us was there. It could be that there was simply nothing he could do. But one thing we do know for sure -- he will have to prove that under the fierce glare of the admiralty judge, if it goes to court.

He will be charged for two things -- failure to keep a watch under Rule 5 -- failure to perceive that there was a collision imminent. And violation of his obligation under Rule 17(b) to take action sufficient to avoid a collision, as soon as it is clear that the give-way vessel -- we presume the sailboat was obligated to stay out of the way of the ferry -- has not taken action itself sufficient to prevent the collision.


People stuck with land and road concepts have trouble understanding that there is simply no such thing as "right of way" at sea. No one ever -- ever! -- has the right to just sail along and assume that the other vessel is solely responsible for avoiding the accident. This is radically different from being on the road. At sea, BOTH skippers are responsible for avoiding the accident. When an accident happens, there is a strong presumption that BOTH skippers violated the rules.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 15:22   #54
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
NO he was going DDW - notice that his spinnaker pole is set - he was running butterfly with the main to one side and genua poled out other. Damn if I know how he got his genua loose from the pole. But yes, the genua is disintergrating.

Looks like a lot of wind - so I agree - way overcanvassed for that day
Looks to me like the wind is on his beam at the time of the collision. Sheets are way eased presumably trying to slow down enough to miss the ferry?
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 15:26   #55
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Well, we can't know -- none of us was there. It could be that there was simply nothing he could do. But one thing we do know for sure -- he will have to prove that under the fierce glare of the admiralty judge, if it goes to court.

He will be charged for two things -- failure to keep a watch under Rule 5 -- failure to perceive that there was a collision imminent. And violation of his obligation under Rule 17(b) to take action sufficient to avoid a collision, as soon as it is clear that the give-way vessel -- we presume the sailboat was obligated to stay out of the way of the ferry -- has not taken action itself sufficient to prevent the collision.


People stuck with land and road concepts have trouble understanding that there is simply no such thing as "right of way" at sea. No one ever -- ever! -- has the right to just sail along and assume that the other vessel is solely responsible for avoiding the accident. This is radically different from being on the road. At sea, BOTH skippers are responsible for avoiding the accident. When an accident happens, there is a strong presumption that BOTH skippers violated the rules.
True, but Sydney harbour is a special case. The Ferries have absolute right of way. If you hit a ferry, you're at fault.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 15:26   #56
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tasmania
Boat: VandeStadt IOR 40' - Insatiable
Posts: 2,317
Images: 91
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

For what it is worth, the Sydney ferries are exempt from the COLREGs insofar as local statute removes their obligation way to sail. Explicitly, sailboats have an obligation to keep clear of Sydney Ferries.

Oops, I just noticed 44cat posted exactly the same, above...
__________________
Weyalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 15:33   #57
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by savoir View Post
I do hope all you armchair experts realize that a 50 knot front blew through Sydney that day. Oh how I would love to line each of you up and send you out into 50 for the first time. It looked like this.


Attachment 98325
Been there, done that, didn't hit a ferry though.


__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 15:37   #58
Registered User
 
goat's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Everywhere (Sea of Cortez right now)
Boat: PSC Orion 27
Posts: 1,098
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

I saw this today on the Thetis Island marina website and it seemed apropos;

Please note the routes used by BC Ferries, which are annotated on Canadian Hydrographic charts. Give the ferry the right-of-way, and do it early with a clear and unambiguous turn to show them you will remain clear. The ferry is both constrained by its draft, and limited in itís ability to maneuver, which de-facto gives it the right of way over pleasure craft regardless of their relative position, or whether it is power or sail. Remember they are working; make their job easier by staying well clear of their path, and always passing astern of them. One other small incentive; there will be an audience on each and every ferry looking at your vessel and how it is handled.
Impress them.


goat
__________________
goat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 15:44   #59
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tasmania
Boat: VandeStadt IOR 40' - Insatiable
Posts: 2,317
Images: 91
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by goat View Post
I saw this today on the Thetis Island marina website and it seemed apropos;

Please note the routes used by BC Ferries, which are annotated on Canadian Hydrographic charts. Give the ferry the right-of-way, and do it early with a clear and unambiguous turn to show them you will remain clear. The ferry is both constrained by its draft, and limited in itís ability to maneuver, which de-facto gives it the right of way over pleasure craft regardless of their relative position, or whether it is power or sail. Remember they are working; make their job easier by staying well clear of their path, and always passing astern of them. One other small incentive; there will be an audience on each and every ferry looking at your vessel and how it is handled.
Impress them.


goat
The BC ferries are very large and are, indeed, constrained by draft and manouverability. The Sydney ferries are not large, are relatively manouverable and furthermore are not required to give way to sailboats. I'm not sure that your example is as "apropos" as you think...
__________________
Weyalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 15:48   #60
Registered User
 
Wrong's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,702
Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Been there, done that, didn't hit a ferry though.


Where'd the photo come from? That's not a squall. It's a gust front. Deadly. Looks to be passing which is fortunate for whoever took the picture.
__________________

__________________
Wrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Ferry

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Wanted: Helene and Andre Boning helene12 Crew Archives 4 09-01-2012 16:56
Hello from Sidney, BC, Canada holland Meets & Greets 15 19-04-2011 16:26
Blow Up at Sidney hummingway Pacific & South China Sea 16 09-04-2010 22:23



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.