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Old 11-03-2015, 19:57   #181
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

The wind that day was certainly well over 35 knots. Remember, Sydney Harbour is pretty protected so the waves are never going to build up to a great height no matter the wind.
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Old 11-03-2015, 20:23   #182
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

Nothing beats these witless wonders:

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Old 12-03-2015, 10:47   #183
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Where do you get the idea he couldn't change course? He in fact DID change course, just before he hit. He turned to port slightly.
Go back and read the posts. My view is his best chance was a turn to port. Disagreement between posters focused mainly on the forces that would come into play as the mainsail rotated around the center with increased exposure to the wind. How much influence his effort to turn the boat had would depend upon several factors, not least of which is how effective the rudder was and type of steering. Tiller or wheel. Whether what appears to be a turn to you or a visual affect introduced by the camera is up for debate. In any case, if there was an attempt to turn the boat it was not effective enough to avoid colliding with the ferry...
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Old 12-03-2015, 13:55   #184
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

The debate about whether or not he was able to turn (barring steering failure) has been pretty weird IMO. Just like the debate about whether the wind was on his beam or directly behind him.


It's clear the wind was on his beam, and the way his sails were(n't) set should have allowed him to turn either way, really. He appeared to be going fast enough that his rudder would be effective, and the loads on the sails would be minimal.


For mine though, even at the start of the video he's much closer to the ferry than I'd get. They make a decent wake, Sydney harbour is quite big, I leave them plenty of room.
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Old 12-03-2015, 13:58   #185
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Nothing beats these witless wonders:

"Starboard!" "STARBOARD!"
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Old 13-03-2015, 09:37   #186
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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...............For mine though, even at the start of the video he's much closer to the ferry than I'd get. They make a decent wake, ............
Any large ship makes a big wake at speed. Staying as far away as possible is a good idea. I once followed a container ship up a river and even though I was a quarter mile or so behind it, I felt the wake. I slowed down to let it get further ahead of me.

Another one passed me (in the opposite direction) on the same river and even though I got as far away as I could and practiced all my "big wake" techniques,
it was very uncomfortable and rearranged some things on the boat.
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Old 14-03-2015, 09:40   #187
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

As someone posted on the YouTube, he's probably drifting sideways a lot and the rudder is stalled. Looks to be making 2 knots(?) forward speed?

Question. Would full reverse engine have any effect?
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Old 14-03-2015, 10:07   #188
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

There is a simple explanation - they are all mad down there.
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Old 14-03-2015, 14:20   #189
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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As someone posted on the YouTube, he's probably drifting sideways a lot and the rudder is stalled. Looks to be making 2 knots(?) forward speed?

Question. Would full reverse engine have any effect?
Way faster than 2 knots. My guess is 8-10 knots. You have a point concerning his drift to leeward. May explain why it appears to an earlier poster he's turning to port.
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Old 15-03-2015, 06:20   #190
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Way faster than 2 knots. My guess is 8-10 knots. You have a point concerning his drift to leeward. May explain why it appears to an earlier poster he's turning to port.
You are really living up to your name with that guess. The yacht would be something like 25-30 foot and it would probably not be able to make those sort of speeds when being well sailed in optimum conditions.
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Old 16-03-2015, 06:49   #191
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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......... Question. Would full reverse engine have any effect?
I would think so but what do I know? I'm a power boater.

Yes, reversing the engine is a way of stopping in a shorter distance.
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Old 16-03-2015, 06:59   #192
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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You are really living up to your name with that guess. The yacht would be something like 25-30 foot and it would probably not be able to make those sort of speeds when being well sailed in optimum conditions.
I'm perfectly happy being Wrong.

Perhaps you can provide the boat specifications so the rest of who don't like being wrong are more informed.

Anyway. My boat's only 23.5' WWL and would have been doing between 6-7 knots in that wind - even with the sails scavenged the way we see in the video.
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Old 16-03-2015, 11:31   #193
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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I'm perfectly happy being Wrong.

Perhaps you can provide the boat specifications so the rest of who don't like being wrong are more informed.

Anyway. My boat's only 23.5' WWL and would have been doing between 6-7 knots in that wind - even with the sails scavenged the way we see in the video.
Like I said, the boat is something like 25-30 foot which will mean the LWL will be similar to yours and thus similar speed, not 8-10...

Earlier looked closely at the video estimating the number of boat lengths it was from the ferries path (when the video showed the ferries direction) Don't remember what I calculated, but from that frame until to collision it was 19 seconds and I came up with a figure of around 4 knots. Looking at the boats motion through the water it seemed reasonable.
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Old 16-03-2015, 12:14   #194
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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I was always taught that if the waves and white caps are going in the same direction as the boat then you would be going down wind!!! Is it different in OZ? Sailboat is running parallel with the wave troughs!!???
Admittedly I'm getting to this thread late but that's my assessment as well. Given he's "sailing" with the center line parallel to the swells (which don't appear to be huge), the boat is heeling to port, and the way the main and jib are luffing to port, I would say he's more likely on a beam reach rather than DDW.

I have no explanation for the setting of the pole.

I think in those conditions he would practically have to be standing on a spoke of the wheel to keep that boat from rounding up to starboard.

It looks eerily similar to our situation during last year's N2E race when a gale (40-50 knots) caught the entire fleet by surprise at 1:30 AM off the coast of Mexico; the primary differences being it was pitch black, the swells were larger, and there were no ferrys. Talk about "Mister Toad's Wild Ride." Fortunately we weren't flying the spinnaker as originally planned.
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Old 16-03-2015, 12:19   #195
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Re: T-boning a Ferry in Sidney

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
The debate about whether or not he was able to turn (barring steering failure) has been pretty weird IMO. Just like the debate about whether the wind was on his beam or directly behind him.


It's clear the wind was on his beam, and the way his sails were(n't) set should have allowed him to turn either way, really. He appeared to be going fast enough that his rudder would be effective, and the loads on the sails would be minimal.


For mine though, even at the start of the video he's much closer to the ferry than I'd get. They make a decent wake, Sydney harbour is quite big, I leave them plenty of room.
Agree with all of this ...
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