Stow Anchors

[barnakiel]

Some do some do not.


It is a good idea in a smaller boat but smaller boats tend to have smaller bilges.


In our ship, the anchor does not fit into the bilge. Too bad.


An outboard can be kept in a cockpit locker. Lower, drier, safer.



Cheers,
b.

[jrau18]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

After well over 100,000 miles of cruising, our anchor still remains on the bow during passages. While there is a small theoretical advantage to moving it to the central bilge, a look at the numbers shows that it is pretty small, especially when one considers that most would leave the chain in the chain locker... usually a much greater weight than the anchor.

The other issue with moving the anchor and/or chain is many boats dont have a good location to place it. If you hit heavy weather, a poorly secured anchor in the bilge becomes a larger liability than extra weight at the bow.

So I wouldn't consider moving it unless you have a way to secure it well. Many boats, this would require modification to the boat somehow, while others may have an appropriate location already.

[wingssail]

We believe that keeping weight out of the ends of the boat is important.

We do, however, leave the 44lb Bruce on the bow roller (shackled). Taking it off the bow or putting it back is difficult and dangerous and not to be done in any kind of waves. This is a safety issue as well as a convenience issue.

The windlass is 10ft back from the bow and the chain dumps into the bilge directly below that. When going on any offshore passage we pull the chain back to the locker next to the mast where most of it lives all the time anyhow. In an emergency we can deploy the anchor without moving the chain; the down direction on the windlass will pull the chain out of the locker but it would drag across some furniture so normally we move 150' of it by hand before anchoring.

Our 66lb storm anchor and our spare anchor both live bolted to bulkheads down low and far aft of the bow. When we've wanted to deploy the storm anchor we shackle a halyard to it and lift it out the bow hatch with a winch. (That is not much fun if the boat is pitching, but doable.) It can be shackled to the chain in place of the 44 or a second rode must be led. In 33 years of cruising this boat, over 55,000 miles, we've chosen to deploy the storm anchor twice, both times when we were already anchored on the std anchor but wanted more security.

Outboard motor: It is never on the transom. It is either on the dingy or on a bracket in the shower area well aft of the bow (it too goes in and out of the bow hatch on a halyard). The dingy is deflated and stowed below as well. None of this equipment interferes with our use of the interior of the vessel; it is all stowed clear of the living areas.

When racing we remove the two biggest anchors and all the chain and they are left ashore (most racing rules require that the anchor be off the bow anyhow, due to the increased risk of damage in a collision). We can, with a race crew onboard, quickly deploy the third anchor, a fortress, and the nylon rode if we need to set an anchor during a race or delivery.

As a side note, we also maintain an absolutely clear deck at all times. No jerry cans, kayaks, paddle boards, or bags of equipment. Nothing that the sea can try to take away. We believe that in heavy weather we need to stay focused on operating the vessel and dealing with wind, waves, sails, and steering (& navigation) not being diverted to the foredeck to try to re-secure some piece of gear which is getting loose. We know of boats which have suffered substantial damage when a big wave swept Kayaks off the boat, taking stanchions with it, and an instance in which a life which was nearly lost trying to save a kayak.

On the scientific side, the weight in the ends of a vessel slows the pitching moment and increases the tendency for the bow to be buried in a trough or rise high going over a crest. It does not matter what the period is, it is always going to be a factor. Anyone who says that "it doesn't make that much difference" just plain does not know. Either motoring or sailing into waves a boat with excess weight in the ends will be slower and wetter. I hear all the time about passages around a local notorious cape where the boat was motoring and was nearly stopped on every wave. They complain dearly about the terrible conditions and how long it took to get around that cape. These are cruising boats with excess weight in the ends. On the other hand we've managed to sail around it several times, in pretty rough conditions, and been able to maintain good VMG. Yeah, it was wet, and yeah, the motion was more jerky, but I'll choose that any day over being stopped on every wave and dealing with a buried bow and cascades of water coming aft for several additional hours, to say nothing of the extra load on the drive train trying to motor in those conditions.

In the end (no pun intended) how a captain sets up their boat is up to them. The emphasis on convenience and tidiness or on safety at sea and sailing performance or anything in between is a choice we can all make, either with the boats we choose or how we set them up.

I say keep the weight out of the ends and the decks clear.

[opusnz]

It depends on the boat. Mine is a fine bowed 36 footer. It will drive fast through the waves but tends to be wet. If I am going to windward at sea in 12 to 15 knots, the anchor will sometimes slam in to the waves and make a hell of a noise, even if I try stapping it down tight with a cargo binder. If I am not sure what weather I will have or think I might be pounding to windward, I would rather spend the 10 or 15 minutes time it takes to remove it before I leave than fuss about with it offshore.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by wingssail

When going on any offshore passage we pull the chain back to the locker next to the mast where most of it lives all the time anyhow. In an emergency we can deploy the anchor without moving the chain; the down direction on the windlass will pull the chain out of the locker but it would drag across some furniture so normally we move 150' of it by hand before anchoring.

Two questions, if you please.

How do you deal with the smell? We find after having had the ground tackle in the water for a few days it gets awful smelly for a number of hours after getting it up.

What would happen to the chain if you got knocked flat? Is the locker door/locks adequate to contain that weight of chain falling on it? I’m always leary of anything in the living area that could go feral in robust conditions.

The other comment I would make is it depends where you cruise and your attitude to going to weather. I don’t round capes where direction of travel is to a certain extent preordained. I reserve the right to sail off the wind and don’t expect my boat to punch through waves. When at sea I would rather sail off the wind an extra 100nm than beat for one nm. But that’s just me. Cruising is about comfort, not deadlines.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Agree 100%!

That's why once we're off soundings we pull as much of our 100 metres of anchor chain aft so that it's right close to the mast step.

Yep. Answers sure divide the sheep from the goats. Some folk prioritise sailing performance. Others just don't.

Well, different boats, different long splices.


It's not only about sailing performance or bare desire for more sailing performance. Where, for example, would I put 100 meters of 1/2" chain, weighing 330kg?


There are practical considerations which in some cases limit "prioritisation".


As other long distance sailors have posted in this thread, my ground tackle stays put. I would very much like for it to be elsewhere on passage -- not just for sailing performance, but to better keep the bow out of the wave faces -- but it's not reasonably possible on my boat.


Next boat I hope will have a Dashew-style chain locker in the bilge right in front of the mast.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Two questions, if you please.

How do you deal with the smell? We find after having had the ground tackle in the water for a few days it gets awful smelly for a number of hours after getting it up.

This can be a problem. However we have a high pressure washdown system that we use to clean the chain as it comes up. If there is stubborn growth on the chain we scrub it with a brush. That would be a slow process but usually only the portion of the chain which was not on the bottom needs to be scrubbed, if at all, and we have 10ft of chain running on deck to the windlass, so we stop it every 10' and scrub it off. It is rarely needed because we don't usually stay anchored for long periods and where we like to stay the water is clean and growth does not happen quickly.

What would happen to the chain if you got knocked flat? Is the locker door/locks adequate to contain that weight of chain falling on it? I’m always leary of anything in the living area that could go feral in robust conditions.

Our chain "locker" is actually a bin against the hull with solid walls and a strong top which covers most of the opening. There is a loose board (actually a dingy seat) which is placed on top of the chain and two wire cables tie that down. In a knock down or even a complete capsize the chain would not fall out. We have never experienced either but we have sailed in some extreme conditions where the boat literally flies off a wave and lands on its side. The chain locker has held.

The other comment I would make is it depends where you cruise and your attitude to going to weather. I don’t round capes where direction of travel is to a certain extent preordained. I reserve the right to sail off the wind and don’t expect my boat to punch through waves. When at sea I would rather sail off the wind an extra 100nm than beat for one nm. But that’s just me. Cruising is about comfort, not deadlines.

Most cruisers prefer to sail off the wind. It is not practical all of the time. Here in our location most boats are based in a port with a marina but often cruise to nearby (150-500 miles) locations where going against the wind is required to return. It is not possible to sail off wind a bit and still get back, ever, (unless you circumnavigate to get back). In my experience people will have to go against the wind (they call it "on the nose") quite often. Mostly they motor. We chose a boat, and maintain it in such a way, that it will sail against the wind very effectively, and quite comfortably. This is a matter of preference. [/I]

I will add, regarding the size of a locker needed for chain storage, our locker (bin) is 40" x 20" x10" (about 4.6 cubic feet, or less than .15 cu meter). This holds 300' (100 mt) of 5/16 chain plus 300' (100mt) of 5/8 nylon. So the space required in not great.

[Mauruuru]

Leave anchors onbow roller but clipped in place so they cannot selfdeploy. Dinghy on foredeck outboard on stern rail. In an emergency underway anchor(s) can be easily set and dinghy launched but otherwise they are secured. My boat is small 34 ft loa

[Pete7]

Well I suppose someone has to be different

We store the anchor in the locker because, well we can. At 10 kgs it's light enough to pickup with one hand and deploy or recover easily. The previous Delta had a nice thick shank so lots of metal to drill a hole for the pin to go through and hold it on the bows. Don't really want to drill a Rocna shank even the later version for obvious reasons

We do a lot of close quarter manoeuvring, parking in rafts with other boats, tight marinas and small quaint harbours. Hitting another boat would be bad enough with grp to grp, but a galv anchor could really make a mess so prefer in in the locker for these occasions.

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Two questions, if you please.

How do you deal with the smell?

What would happen to the chain if you got knocked flat? .

Anchor locker is completely sealed off from the rest of the boat with a crash bulkhead. The drain runs forward out through the bow about 9" above the water line at rest. Water is free to enter and leave so keeps it reasonably clean.

Anchor locker lid has two catches to secure it. the original and a second one fitted by the first owner. probably strong enough to take a knockdown.

Pete

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by wingssail

We believe that keeping weight out of the ends of the boat is important.

We do, however, leave the 44lb Bruce on the bow roller (shackled). Taking it off the bow or putting it back is difficult and dangerous and not to be done in any kind of waves. This is a safety issue as well as a convenience issue.

The windlass is 10ft back from the bow and the chain dumps into the bilge directly below that. When going on any offshore passage we pull the chain back to the locker next to the mast where most of it lives all the time anyhow. In an emergency we can deploy the anchor without moving the chain; the down direction on the windlass will pull the chain out of the locker but it would drag across some furniture so normally we move 150' of it by hand before anchoring.


As a side note, we also maintain an absolutely clear deck at all times. No jerry cans, kayaks, paddle boards, or bags of equipment. Nothing that the sea can try to take away. We believe that in heavy weather we need to stay focused on operating the vessel and dealing with wind, waves, sails, and steering (& navigation) not being diverted to the foredeck to try to re-secure some piece of gear which is getting loose. We know of boats which have suffered substantial damage when a big wave swept Kayaks off the boat, taking stanchions with it, and an instance in which a life which was nearly lost trying to save a kayak.

On the scientific side, the weight in the ends of a vessel slows the pitching moment and increases the tendency for the bow to be buried in a trough or rise high going over a crest. It does not matter what the period is, it is always going to be a factor. Anyone who says that "it doesn't make that much difference" just plain does not know. Either motoring or sailing into waves a boat with excess weight in the ends will be slower and wetter. I hear all the time about passages around a local notorious cape where the boat was motoring and was nearly stopped on every wave. They complain dearly about the terrible conditions and how long it took to get around that cape. These are cruising boats with excess weight in the ends. On the other hand we've managed to sail around it several times, in pretty rough conditions, and been able to maintain good VMG. Yeah, it was wet, and yeah, the motion was more jerky, but I'll choose that any day over being stopped on every wave and dealing with a buried bow and cascades of water coming aft for several additional hours, to say nothing of the extra load on the drive train trying to motor in those conditions.

In the end (no pun intended) how a captain sets up their boat is up to them. The emphasis on convenience and tidiness or on safety at sea and sailing performance or anything in between is a choice we can all make, either with the boats we choose or how we set them up.

I say keep the weight out of the ends and the decks clear.

Nice post, especially about the clear decks.

Doesn't it make a difference how long the passage is? I'd skip it for anything but an Ocean crossing but don't know why I wouldn't stow the anchor for that long of a distance. Number 1 - we have a lot of time and very little to do, so an hour of one day to remove the anchor and another to put it back seems pretty easy. Also, we have been hit by some pretty big seas and I really don't want them hitting my anchor. Not because it can't take it because the roller is very robust, but I just don't see why I'd want the pressure.

As for the weight, the anchor is 55 kilos. It's not significant in the overall weight of the boat, but it is for the bow, which is somewhat light. If fact, this last crossing I moved all my spare parts, tools, pretty much everything that could be moved, to the center of the boat and low. IMO it made a huge difference to the performance of our crossing.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Anchor locker is completely sealed off from the rest of the boat with a crash bulkhead. The drain runs forward out through the bow about 9" above the water line at rest. Water is free to enter and leave so keeps it reasonably clear

See that’s the only place where the design of my boat beggars belief and leaves one wondering what the designers were thinking.

The only access to the anchor locker is through a door in the front bulkhead in the forepeak. The rode gets into it through a hawse pipe under the anchor winch gypsy. Any water that gets in washes down a pipe connected to the main bilge. Along with it any mud/sea life that might be stuck to the chain.

When using the whole rode (chain and rope) the rope obviously goes in first but once in it has a life of its own and someone has to go below to stow it else the chain doesn’t have space and pyramids.

But to change it to a deck hatch is just too hard so we’ve sorta got used to it. And that brings me back to moving the rode aft. I have to drag it through the forepeak accomodation which is seriously undesirable. Which is one of the reasons I don’t

I have made up some elaborate plugs that block the hawse pipes (there are 2) about 95% but if seas break on the foredeck we take a splash into the locker each time. Hence my desire to only sail off the end with following seas.

[Panope]

Pretty sure there was some dude on this forum who added a huge secondary bow anchor with chain rode just to correct 'bow high' trim.

When that did not quite do the trick, the crazy bastard jack hammered out much of his lead and concrete ballast and moved a bunch forward, under the anchor locker.

After all that, I believe he reported that the pitching/windward performance did not change a noticeable amount.

Steve

[Fluenta]

Lots of interesting discussion as always.



For the previous 30,000+nm or so we have not removed our 33kg Rocna from the bow of our 47' boat. However, for the 3700 nm passage from the Marshall Islands to the Aleutians in Alaska that we completed a few days ago we did remove the anchor for two reasons.


1. We knew we had a lot of windward miles through the trade winds and then whatever mother nature dished out in the variables. In the past in the steeper seas we had observed that the anchor would slam into the waves as we be bashed to windward. This has to be slowing the boat and harder on the rig as that load is transferred to the bow roller. Qualitatively we noted on the recent passage that the bow blasted through the waves much smoother. As an engineer I am also confident in theory that there was less hobbyhorsing but as we do not generally have a problem with that I could not detect a difference. If doing another long windward passage again we would do this again.


2. Going through the variables on the way to the Aleutians we were at a higher risk of gales and even potentially, if really had bad luck, storm force. If we needed to deploy our sea anchor then the anchor chain was available to provide a chafe free leader for our sea anchor rode. Thankfully we did not get to test our sea anchor or drogue.


I drilled some small holes in the aft sole of the V-berth and then made soft loops with dynmea. The anchor was sat on a scrap of plywood and nonskid and then lashed down to the sole. Nobody lives in the V-berth at sea.


Our Fortress anchor was used while we shifted the Rocna and kept at the ready when land was near.


Certainly not advocating that this is "the" right answer but we will likely do it again if faced with another long windward passage.