STORM PREPARATION AT SEA

[Neptune's Gear]

Engine mounts should have a dyneema loop around them if they are the type that can seperate if the rubber vulcanising fails.
Ovens should have split pins through the gimbal axles so that they cannot come out of the gimbal mounting.
Much of this stuff is on the NZ cat one regulations - see here https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/sites/...28small%29.pdf
All NZ registered vessels are required to meet cat 1 before an international voyage. Even if you are not from NZ, they make, IMO, a good basic standard for a well found yacht.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by cyan

I’m curious about a dewatering pump that wouldn’t be a pain to carry on a 40’ mono. I assume it would have to have its own gasoline engine? Damn shame my Honda 2000 generator doesn’t have a power take off shaft that could drive a serious pump. Hmmmm, sounds like a project....

We had a discussion about this years ago. There are no easy cut and dried solutions. Some variants:

1. Electric construction trash pump, if you have some way of powering it
2. Gasoline powered construction trash pump
3. Diesel powered construction trash pump.

The key thing is that the pump needs to be designed to deal with solids, and should have the largest possible discharge hose.

I went with No. 1 because I have a heavy duty diesel generator mounted well above the waterline. A portable suitcase generator might work, but needs to be matched to the pump. My pump is 2.3kW and needs 5kW to start, so works fine with my 6.5kW generator, but wouldn't work with the normal Honda, but there are smaller pumps.

No. 2 has the disadvantages of where to store it (gasoline vapors) and the risk of the carb getting gummed up in long storage. This could be solved in different ways.

No. 3 has the disadvantage of weight, bulk and cost.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear

Engine mounts should have a dyneema loop around them if they are the type that can seperate if the rubber vulcanising fails.
Ovens should have split pins through the gimbal axles so that they cannot come out of the gimbal mounting.
Much of this stuff is on the NZ cat one regulations - see here https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/sites/...28small%29.pdf
All NZ registered vessels are required to meet cat 1 before an international voyage. Even if you are not from NZ, they make, IMO, a good basic standard for a well found yacht.

The cat one regs are for the most part a very good start point. Well worth reading. As we have previously discussed I am not sure I agree with the manditory application in NZ, but I can't argue with the wisdom of many of the requirements.

[Mike Banks]

Did anyone mention rigging the for'ard storms'l? Without that little bikini-bottom of heavy duty loose-footed sail, it is hard to maintain any steering-way.

Mine had a fitting on the mast for the stay, the other end of it went to a pelican hook which was fastened to a deck-ring bolt.

Rig the bridle for your sea-anchor and drogue if you need to deploy it at some stage, it will not be a problem if you have it already tied in place with breakable ties so it can be from the cockpit or easily from the stern and operate from the forequarter or have it streamed aft in the case of a drogue. A vessel riding to a sea anchor with a long nylon rode will make only a little seaway while the storm blows itself out.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

We had a discussion about this years ago. There are no easy cut and dried solutions. Some variants:

1. Electric construction trash pump, if you have some way of powering it
2. Gasoline powered construction trash pump
3. Diesel powered construction trash pump.

The key thing is that the pump needs to be designed to deal with solids, and should have the largest possible discharge hose.

I went with No. 1 because I have a heavy duty diesel generator mounted well above the waterline. A portable suitcase generator might work, but needs to be matched to the pump. My pump is 2.3kW and needs 5kW to start, so works fine with my 6.5kW generator, but wouldn't work with the normal Honda, but there are smaller pumps.

No. 2 has the disadvantages of where to store it (gasoline vapors) and the risk of the carb getting gummed up in long storage. This could be solved in different ways.

No. 3 has the disadvantage of weight, bulk and cost.

I have a dedicated main engine Belt Driven Bilge Pump
2" ID with electromagnetic clutch, that is conected to a 2.5" Discharge line.
Removes about 60 gallons /minute

I dont have any good pictures of it , but similar to this Jabsco... (mine is Johnson)

https://www.jabscoshop.com/marine/pu...nged-ports.htm

The suction hose has a large strainer (Strum Box), so it can keep pumping even with a lot of debri in the bilge

[Romlea]

What an excellent thread.

We left for a circumnavigation a year ago, with all this advice, we will do our “”homework” again.

This is highly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Pelagic]

Another aspect not yet discussed are the damage control materials you should try and carry on board.
Having a steel Hull, Deck and House, I don’t expect any major holes developing from a storm (more likely due to a grounding or collision) but I carry some ¾” marine ply cut in sets of two to fit in between frame spaces as a patching sandwich. Along with Heavy Rubber sheets, stainless Threaded Rod and nuts to draw the inside and outside patch pieces together.
If you don’t have storm shutters for your windows, make up some fitted blanks from fiberglass or plywood, that can be attached from outside.
Bolt cutters, spare steering cable, cable clamps and some heavy lumber for bracing are hopefully never needed!
Just think ogf the materials you would need to fix an 8 inch hole in the side of your hull

[inlogo]

Thanks for your share. It's so helpful.

[unbusted67]

Originally Posted by cyan

I’m curious about a dewatering pump that wouldn’t be a pain to carry on a 40’ mono. I assume it would have to have its own gasoline engine? Damn shame my Honda 2000 generator doesn’t have a power take off shaft that could drive a serious pump. Hmmmm, sounds like a project....

I am curious about the same thing. I think on some bigger boat the genny raw water system can be plumbed into the fire fighting system and act as a dewatering pump. Does anyone know about a similar setup?

I also wonder about somehow retrofitting a small gas generator into a dewatering pump, so at least you don't have this huge bulky thing on board that only serves one purpose.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by unbusted67

I am curious about the same thing. I think on some bigger boat the genny raw water system can be plumbed into the fire fighting system and act as a dewatering pump. Does anyone know about a similar setup?

I also wonder about somehow retrofitting a small gas generator into a dewatering pump, so at least you don't have this huge bulky thing on board that only serves one purpose.

Forget raw water pumps -- main engine, or generator. They are too small and too delicate for this work, and when (not if, but WHEN) the pump clogs, you've lost your engine or genny, too. This works perhaps on some big motor vessels, but engines up to 100hp simply don't pump even 1/10 of enough raw water for this to make any sense.

Instead of retrofitting a pump to a gas generator, just use the electricity it produces to run an electric pump. Makes vastly more sense.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Instead of retrofitting a pump to a gas generator, just use the electricity it produces to run an electric pump. Makes vastly more sense.

Easier, sure. Vastly more sense? Well...
Lets look at some numbers...
A little Honda 2000 suitcase generator has a 3.6 HP gasoline engine. You could power a 1.0 HP electric trash pump with it, which would probably be quite adequate at better than 100 GPH. However, you are hauling 30 or 40 extra pounds in the form of a heavy-duty electric motor that you MIGHT need one day. Might not. Wouldn't it be better if the PTO shaft could connect DIRECTLY to a pump?

If you are in need of a dewatering pump, you are no doubt in serious trouble with water. Probably a flooded cabin, and still waves crashing outside. Stringing 110V or 220V extension cords through a swamped boat in such conditions might have you scratching your head, wondering why you need to convert mechanical energy into electrical energy into mechanical energy.

VASTLY more sense?

[Taipe]

Many excellent comments! To expand further,
much of what needs to be done to prepare before a storm bears down to white knuckled proportions, requires already having equipped the boat for severe storm conditions.

A Jordan Drogue can be safely deployed and is very effective in slowing a boat down to about 1 to 2 knots, greatly reducing the risk of injury and sinking. It does require practice in less demanding conditions and needs to be deployed from a bridle securely attached to the hull. Much less desirable are parachute design sea anchors that are prone to twisting and those that are made from fabric instead of webbing are vulnerable to being torn apart.

High output electric and manual bilge pumps should be connected to a large diameter unrestricted thru hull ideally located aft, as high and as close to the midline as possible because this allows for less restriction to flow imposed by boarding seas and listing of the boat.

To shore up a hole in the hull above or below the water line, a damage control kit secured in or near the bilge would usually consist of several pieces of slotted holes pre-drilled into 1" x 6" × 2' planks, and short pieces of all-thread with washers and nuts in order to sandwich the hull from without and within, together with oily rags to fill the voids. This allows the bilge pumps to keep up with the demand.

I could never figure why boat mfgs continue to vent tanks overboard. So, to keep seawater out of fuel and fresh water tanks, and yet keep them functioning in all conditions, instead of temporarily plugging vents to tanks, better yet would be to double loop the vent hoses, add a fish-mouth type valve to each and vent them inside the boat, secured as high as possible.

For extended off shore cruising I think most of us already remove our anchors and stow them out of harms way.

Static lines, also called jack lines, to tether oneself to, do not necessarily keep a sailor on board on a pitching deck. So, to prevent being dragged and drowned outside the hull, the shorter the tether the better!

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari

I would want to make sure I can turn the engine on in an instant if I had to in a storm so this would not happen , and quite the reverse I turn on the engine if I can just in case I need it especially if there's a lee shore nearby

There's no real chance that the antisiphon would fail if it isn't plugged, even in the very unlikely circumstance of water getting up in the exhaust far enough (on my boat at least, the exhaust loop is well above the waterline)

A few times after being hove to I have had both the generator and the main engine full of water. Both had the exhaust loop well above the waterline.

Tasman and the Gulf of Alaska in a blow often become like a washing machine waves and swells coming from different directions, putting lots of water across the deck.

Engine is only useful for charging batteries in a real blow.

M

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by cyan

Easier, sure. Vastly more sense? Well...
Lets look at some numbers...
A little Honda 2000 suitcase generator has a 3.6 HP gasoline engine. You could power a 1.0 HP electric trash pump with it, which would probably be quite adequate at better than 100 GPH. However, you are hauling 30 or 40 extra pounds in the form of a heavy-duty electric motor that you MIGHT need one day. Might not. Wouldn't it be better if the PTO shaft could connect DIRECTLY to a pump?

If you are in need of a dewatering pump, you are no doubt in serious trouble with water. Probably a flooded cabin, and still waves crashing outside. Stringing 110V or 220V extension cords through a swamped boat in such conditions might have you scratching your head, wondering why you need to convert mechanical energy into electrical energy into mechanical energy.

VASTLY more sense?

Vastly more sense for sure, because there is no way in Hades you're going to get a PTO for a pump onto the engine of a Honda suitcase generator. It would be easier to engineer and build a whole new device. There's nothing remotely feasible to attach anything to.

You can't even control the throttle -- it's drive by wire based on power demand. This kind of generator is just totally unsuited to this kind of backyard engineering.

If you want a pump directly powered by a gasoline engine, you will want to buy a dedicated one, which is not that expensive.

To run the electrical pump, you don't need to "string extension cords". You put the generator someplace dry and run the long cord from the pump to it, and Bob's your uncle. If you already have the suitcase gen, it's a good approach. Main drawback is the limitation of size of the pump, but you can still pump a lot of water with a 1hp pump.

Another advantage of this is that an electric pump can be submersible, which is quite a lot more efficient. One reason why it can be advantageous to convert mech energy to electrical and back, is to get the power more easily where it's needed. Why locomotives are diesel-electric although some power is lost in the conversion.

[old frog]

A Honda, or other brand, suitcase generator used to run a dewatering pump in storm condition makes no sense in my opinion. Is it to be placed inside or under sheltered dodger? What about the exhaust and carbon monoxide? Place it on deck? Place in deck in storm conditions? Hove to, & pouring gas into the generator lashed to a deck? Cords plugged into the 110VAC outlet? Water - rain, wind driven & seas - all about? I question the ability to get clean fresh gasoline into it, the ability to start & keep it running and the GFI protected outlet from tripping.

IMHO, a dewatering pump should be PTO engine connected to connected to other adequate power supply (ie. genset).