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Old 17-05-2016, 21:34   #1
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Stay on board or get on dry land

i read with no small interest the question posed as to what to do if your boat is moored or anchored in a pending hurricane spot. Get off or stay on board. After crossing the Pacific in my USA built Beneteau 373 I sat out 60 plu in Eden, NSW. I was on my Delta anchor in very shelted water.at the chip mill. My anchor held but I did run the Yanny 39HP for 6 hours ,however. Two of my friends died when their yacht Tobasco2 sank at the mooring during Hurricane Odile. Mexico 2014. So I reckon if you could ask Paul or Simone you would have a"get the hell off the boat" answer.
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Old 17-05-2016, 22:25   #2
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

i spent patricia part in boat and part forced into hotel. i wanted to stay on boat. it was safer than hotel.
we were in a true huricane hole, designed and built correctly. even the wifi worked for patricia.. was a milagro.
had my boat been bow to winds, i would have spent the entire cane in boat. was safer than running around between blowing out glass items in a bit of wind.
however i was beam to winds and it was considered safer for me to exit boat with cat and ye wanna call it walk to a hotel room that was already blown out, then to another one not yet blown out, with some somewhat brisk winds blowing my skirt over my damned head. poor bubba. good thing i was wearing shorts and a tank.
the boats in the cane hole and those in mangroves did well. those up the channels, err canals, had damages. my boat suffered damage due to my allowing a windgen be placed on my mizzenhead,. that doesnt work in strong breezes, as my neighbor who remained on boat thruout told me he could not stop watching my mizzen --he thought it would break and hit him. didnt.
one boat in mangroves had no one on board, 4 did.
the one unoccupied went walkabout on its own ,blew out its rollerfurled jib and ended up on marys restaurant, between panga dock and the deck of the restaurant. it was and is still fine.
there is no set law nothing written in stone about what to do in a cane. there is a list of what insurance companies will not cover, but for the rest of us, there isnt a set thing. whatever works for you in your area is what you should do.
what we did in our area for a storm unbelievably strong and trying to still grow in strength when it hit with its wobbling eyeball, worked for us.
but, NEXT time i WILL be remaining on boat with nose into winds and hunkered the hell down. my neighbor lost his staysail. i didnt lose sails, only cracked mizzen and broken boarding ladder dammit. wind genny was drowned in its housing, due to install fail by a nonhelper, and life goes on.
was a helluva storm. fun to watch and beautiful formation. small and powerful
yes i would remain in board next time. hellyeah. the only boats damaged were unoccupied, mine included.
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Old 17-05-2016, 23:03   #3
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

It's a tough call and each boat location and storm is different.
I agree with Zee .....you've got to trust your instincts.

For those that argue...there is nothing you can do to help save the boat....not true!

The storm force wind comes in waves and rain bands

In between there is time to put on or repair loose lashings or reinforce against chafe.
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Old 18-05-2016, 05:50   #4
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
.. . ,blew out its rollerfurled jib. . . my neighbor lost his staysail.. .
It's a really good idea to get sails off furlers and bagged up below, before a hurricane. And all canvas and anything which can reduce windage.

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Old 18-05-2016, 06:22   #5
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

Your comment about your friends reminds me of a documentary show I saw quite a few years ago. It was about Hurricane Camille, which came ashore in Mississippi in 1969.

At the time, there had not been a major storm in that area in a long time. So, as the storm approached, a bunch of people started planning hurricane parties. Get a bunch of friends together, plenty of food and booze, hunker down, and enjoy the storm. Believe it or not, these kinds of parties are quite common whenever a hurricane approaches.

They interviewed one particular woman who was at such a party. They were on the third floor of an apartment building. By the time the first floor was completely underwater they realized that it might not have been so smart to stay. But by then, of course, it was too late. When the second floor was awash, the building started to crumble. She watched as about a dozen of her friends died. She was the only one at the party who survived.

Like I said in the other thread, there is a substantial range between a "big storm" and a "threaten your life" storm. In the case of Camille, they knew well ahead of time that it was a dangerous storm. In a case like that, staying behind--in the words of the woman who survived--is just "incredibly stupid." You have to judge for yourself how bad the storm is going to be, and what the risk is, but in the end no boat is worth your life.
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Old 18-05-2016, 06:33   #6
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
It's a tough call and each boat location and storm is different.
I agree with Zee .....you've got to trust your instincts.

For those that argue...there is nothing you can do to help save the boat....not true!

The storm force wind comes in waves and rain bands

In between there is time to put on or repair loose lashings or reinforce against chafe.
+ 1 for this post. Each and every situation is different. You have to look at all of the variables when making this decision. I've been through four hurricanes and numerous tropical storms. Some hurricanes I stayed aboard, two I didn't. One that I didn't was Marilyn in St.Thomas. My boat ended up on top of the mangroves. The other was Ike in Providenciales. Cat 5. Stayed indoors.
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Old 18-05-2016, 08:50   #7
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

The reason I would never consider staying on board is because you never know what you're getting into. Remember that hurricanes can jump from Cat 3 to Cat 5 in no time. So if you're banking on a Cat 3 staying a Cat 3 to make your stay on board decision, you're gambling with your life, over a boat! If you have insurance, why would you do that, unless you have a death wish?
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Old 18-05-2016, 09:10   #8
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

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It's a really good idea to get sails off furlers and bagged up below, before a hurricane. And all canvas and anything which can reduce windage.

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Yup, all sails below, booms lashed hard down on deck, anything movable below, even winch handles, all lockers locked, and lots of chafing gear. Worthwhile to remove cowls and seal closed. Same with vent tubes. 140 mph winds will kill you quick. The boat may float but be drowning in a thick spray of water.
What will kill a boat is if the sails become loose and start flogging the rigging as well as healing the boat 45 degrees plus. At dock as many lines as possible. At anchor, ditto anchors. If at sea, keep a storm sail up and ride it out.
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Old 18-05-2016, 09:33   #9
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
It's a tough call and each boat location and storm is different.
I agree with Zee .....you've got to trust your instincts.

For those that argue...there is nothing you can do to help save the boat....not true!

The storm force wind comes in waves and rain bands

In between there is time to put on or repair loose lashings or reinforce against chafe.
Whilst I agree with your post I diasagree to trust instincts. My instinct to be be a hero and be aboard to protect my boat. But its an untenable position if we think about it seriously.

The only analogy I can think of is military: no platoon is sent to a position they can not withdraw from (retreat in lay terms). No one is sent to hold a post At All Costs anymore. Soldiers are not cannon fodder and nor is the cruiser (retired desk jockey, old, bad knees, dicky ticker etc).
I am far younger, fitter and dashing more pretty than you guys but how the hell could I hold a boat off mine in 70 knots? How could I re-run a poorly chafe protected line in 60 knots? How could I motor the boat forward while pulling up a dragging anchor?

The reality is unless its just a half hour squall your heroic instincts are as pathetic as mine.

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Old 18-05-2016, 10:28   #10
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

patricia was cat 5 and strengthening when she slammed mexicoast and yes i was prepped proppah for c5. we were not ready for THE most intense cane on planet to date.
we were still comforatble in boat which was a safer place than hotel right there. glass was blowing out of windows as we walked or tried to walk to that hotel.
as EACH CANE IS DIFFERENT , all one can do is prep and trust. i trust my boat to get thru most everything.
i had summered in same cane hole since 2013, so i knew the actions of storms in the area.
ye dont know what ye got til ye got it? sorry i KNEW what it was BEFORE we got slammed. i watch storms. i was gonna stay on board but someone decided fb pressure to extricate me was strong enough to share a suite in posh hotel. my neighbor stayed on his boat. he had only torn staysail. as his lines popped he replaced em.
i had spiderweb both sides, and broke a cleat, losing 2 lines, leavi g 4 securing my heavy boat to windward zide of my boat. i also tied to pilings. that helped when cleat broke to prevent further damage to me and docks.
rapid intensification happens. remember odile... she grew in strength just off cabo corrientes from c2 to c4 in 5 hours. left cabo corrientes across to cabo san lucas as a c4.. yet no one in south baja paid attention. she hit la paz as c3 and folks still thought would be 76 kts wind only.
as none were prepared for c4, there was death.
predictions work only as well as folks who listen to those predictions.
no one said it was weakening. false rumors abound in strong storms.
learn to watch that which causes most harm and prevent those damages from occurring.
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Old 18-05-2016, 11:17   #11
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Your comment about your friends reminds me of a documentary show I saw quite a few years ago. It was about Hurricane Camille, which came ashore in Mississippi in 1969.

At the time, there had not been a major storm in that area in a long time. So, as the storm approached, a bunch of people started planning hurricane parties. Get a bunch of friends together, plenty of food and booze, hunker down, and enjoy the storm. Believe it or not, these kinds of parties are quite common whenever a hurricane approaches.

They interviewed one particular woman who was at such a party. They were on the third floor of an apartment building. By the time the first floor was completely underwater they realized that it might not have been so smart to stay. But by then, of course, it was too late. When the second floor was awash, the building started to crumble. She watched as about a dozen of her friends died. She was the only one at the party who survived.

Like I said in the other thread, there is a substantial range between a "big storm" and a "threaten your life" storm. In the case of Camille, they knew well ahead of time that it was a dangerous storm. In a case like that, staying behind--in the words of the woman who survived--is just "incredibly stupid." You have to judge for yourself how bad the storm is going to be, and what the risk is, but in the end no boat is worth your life.
That was the Richelieu Apartments right down the street from our house in Pass Christian
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Old 18-05-2016, 18:21   #12
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Whilst I agree with your post I diasagree to trust instincts. My instinct to be be a hero and be aboard to protect my boat. But its an untenable position if we think about it seriously.

The only analogy I can think of is military: no platoon is sent to a position they can not withdraw from (retreat in lay terms). No one is sent to hold a post At All Costs anymore. Soldiers are not cannon fodder and nor is the cruiser (retired desk jockey, old, bad knees, dicky ticker etc).
I am far younger, fitter and dashing more pretty than you guys but how the hell could I hold a boat off mine in 70 knots? How could I re-run a poorly chafe protected line in 60 knots? How could I motor the boat forward while pulling up a dragging anchor?

The reality is unless its just a half hour squall your heroic instincts are as pathetic as mine.

Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.
A lot of testosterone in your post Mark

35 years as a professional mariner and the last 15 years living in the busiest Typhoon zone in the world has cured me of any heroics.

None of your imagined fixes which all work against natural forces, would ever be considered..... However easing stresses and softening pinch points to slowly reorienting bow to changing forces are all perfectly within my physical capabilities.

I have survived many storms onboard, thru anticipation and avoidance of dangerous quadrant. If coastal, then anchorage selection with minimal fetch, good holding and the Murphy factor where you can drag onto a soft beach with minimal fetch are some of the considerations.

Yacht preparation and housekeeping while constantly monitoring the passing eye is easier if you remain onboard.

However, if the boat was incapacitated inside a poorly positioned and constructed-maintained Marina... I would probably do what I could to secure+protect and get to a safe place if a worst case scenario of a 100 year storm was approaching.

In other words...Instincts + experience
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Old 18-05-2016, 18:32   #13
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

If you have experienced 6 or 7 hurricanes including a Cat 3-4, you will know a boat is no place to be during a hurricane.

The big ones spawn multiple tornadoes also. And yes, a house here can still stand while the one next door is just sticks.

You want to take that chance to save a boat especially one that is insured?

As far as tying your boat to the dock with lots of line, that's nice unless the whole dock is dislodged when it floats above it's pilings during the surge
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Old 19-05-2016, 09:27   #14
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

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If you have experienced 6 or 7 hurricanes including a Cat 3-4, you will know a boat is no place to be during a hurricane.
The real problem is the people who go through several Cat 2,3,4 storms and are lucky enough not to experience anything too severe. Then they think that's the way they all are, and there is really no reason to evacuate.

Along comes a Cat 3 and they think, no big deal. No reason to leave. And then they die when their house (or boat) is picked up and dashed to pieces by a spawned tornado. Or when the tides coincide with the storm and the surge is twice as bad as it ever has been in the past.

Once again, though, I am not saying that you are dumb if you do not always evacuate. I am saying that you should not allow yourself to become complacent, that you have to judge for yourself, and that no boat is worth losing your life over. Ever!
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Old 19-05-2016, 09:38   #15
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Re: Stay on board or get on dry land

®Once again, though, I am not saying that you are dumb if you do not always evacuate. I am saying that you should not allow yourself to become complacent, that you have to judge for yourself, and that no boat is worth losing your life over. Ever!®
(denverd0n)

exactly. each and every storm is different. patricia as cat 5 was different from katrina, which hit as c5.
each and every named storm sliding up coast of mexico is different . ditto atlantic and east coast and gom and caribbean
complacency kills.
it is important to watch closely once these become invests, to see the path they take and intensity they manage. rapid intensification is real. odile grew in intensity off cabo corrientes in only 5 hours from c2 to c4. corrientes isonly 2 days away fro cane for cabo san lucas. that is over water. rumors of dissipation are generally incorrect, and need to be ignored, yet that seems to have been what happened there.
many of us depend on the words of others for determining our weather, whether it is cane tracking, or daily weather, or sailing weather windows. not always are these words true for the entire area in which ye sail. we each need to be able to see this in weather sat fotos and all other media offered to us for this express purpose. then nothing is a surprise.
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