Originally Posted by OldFrog75
"Happy button...?" Boats have a button I can push to make me happy
Never saw that in the owners' manuals
. Maybe I should read the fine print.
Originally Posted by OldFrog75
Fire away, Cali, fire away...
Maybe so but in this case baggy 10 year old sails on a charter
boat sounds like a reasonable explanation to me.
First of all I have never been on your boat and the statement above makes me think this is not your boat and this is a rental boat with blown out sails. Maybe there is nothing you can do then but...
6-8; everyone who isn't needed in the cockpit is on the rail
What is the heel angle under these conditions?
You need fatter friends - LOL...
If you are getting 30 degrees of heel in 14 knot
winds then someone who should be on the rail is not. On a 32 foot boat the only two people in the cockpit
on the beat should be driver and main trimmer.
I know it's club racing
but a 31 foot boat should be fully crewed with 5 or 6 people and there should be plenty of weight in this wind
to keep the boat at less than 15 degrees.
What is the boat speed under these conditions?
6 1/2 knots
So boat speed is good. Heel angle is too high and the boat rounds up.
Why are the Genoa cars back?
To flatten the sail and point higher
If the genoa cars are back the lead pulls more on the foot and you are introducing twist to the top of genoa. You are not making it flat. You are actually depowering your genoa. You may consider moving the cars forward until an imaginary line drawn from the lead in angle of the sheet bisects the angle created by the foot and the leach.
Why do you think you need to flatten the mainsail under these conditions?
Depower the sail and reduce heeling while sailing close hauled
Flattening the main sail will depower the main. dropping the traveller will depower the main. Reefing will depower the main.
Reefing - as you stated at 14 knots you definitely should not be thinking about reefing.
Traveller down - when the main sail is trimmed on the beat. the boom is over the traveller. I get a lot of push back on this one but in this case the vang and the main sheet are doing the same thing - they are both setting the distance from the masthead to the end of the boom - this distance opens or closes the leach.
There is another way to close the leach and I get push back on this one too. On a masthead rig many people believe that the backstay doesn't impact the main as it opposes the forestay. Not true - the backstay bends the mast
in the middle - more backstay pushes the middle of the mast
forward and increases the distance from the leach to the luff - flattening the sail. But it also introduces twist in the main (shorter distance from masthead to boom tip) which means you have to vang or mainsheet harder (on the beat) to shorten the leach again.
Tightening backstay also moves the draft
aft and may require cunningham to move the draft
forward again. And yes I know you stated you don't have a cunningham but you should be aware what backstay does if you use it.
So once you have set the leach length leave the vang and the mainsheet alone - by changing the vang or mainsheet there are several other controls impacted.
- make sure the out haul is on pretty tight. A loose outhaul
moves the lower foot closer to the mast - this closes the lower leach - a closed lower leach steers to weather. With a bagged out sail however this is a compromise/crapshoot.
So the final piece of background is that with bagged out mainsail you may never be able to flatten the main. You can only pull on the 3 corners. The middle may never flatten - As you try to flatten the main you are moving the draft back and this reduces pointing.
I have sailed briefly in your waters, my experience is you get ocean chop. You actually would do better with a fuller main as a fuller main accelerates better. Give up a little pointing and accelerate out of the troughs and you may end up getting around the course faster. With a bagged out main you really don't have much choice.
The boom should be at the centerline and above in this wind. The top batten should be parallel to the boom or even slightly closed. It took me a long time to really understand this.
You should try to think about other things - this boat cannot be overpowered in 14 knots and you should not be looking at ways to depower the main in 14 knots.
I've been on a lot of boats where after the tack the genoa trimmer is done but the sail is way out of trim. I've taken up to 5-6 inches of sheet in after a trimmer thinks the genoa is trimmed. It's an unnatural act for many people to pull that hard on a boat.
What "problem" are you solving for? Weather helm?
Rounding up head to wind in gusts
So here is my remote
diagnosis and I am not being critical so take it with a grain of salt
- Your crew "cannot" be in the right place on the beat - 6 X 150# = 900# on the rail of a 32 foot boat must make the boat flat in 14 knots.
- You may be inadvertently twisting off the genoa with car position
- The genoa is "set and forget" on a tack (on the beat) especially in these winds - the genoa trimmer should be #1 on the rail and the first person to come down in prep for a tack.
- You should consider giving up a little flatness in the main sail especially a bagged out main sail. Vang hard, mainsheet hard makes a "round" belly too far aft, pulling "sideways" not forward because the draft is too far aft.
- The main trimmer needs to be active and the crew needs to be calling the gusts. I know you said that you don't have or want a full blown race
crew but that's what race crews do. The traveler is dropped - sometimes way dropped - in heavy gusting conditions. You should be able to slowly drop the traveler and see the "bubble" at the luff as the genoa starts to backwind the main. With traveler well dropped you could have a big bubble in the luff but the middle and back of the sail is still pulling. On my boat dropping the traveler along (and it's only a meter long) drops heel angle (when powered up) but at least 5 degrees.
- Finally the skipper
needs to be actively steering
. Up into the gusts and down into the lulls.
All in all I think your weather helm and rounding up are twisted off genoa and not sheeting the genoa hard enough. Oh and the crew needs to hike out if you really are getting 20-30 degrees of heel in 14 knots.
Ok - how'd I do?