Snubber sizing for All Chain Ground Tackle

[Doek]

One last note... 1/2" nylon has approximately a 4 ton breaking strength. It needs to be fairly long to get decent stretch out of it and it certainly is plenty strong for the job. 5/8" nylon breaks at over 6.25 tons. Way too heavy. You might as well use a bar of steel for all the stretch and shock absorbtion you can expect from it.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by quackedo

One last note... 1/2" nylon has approximately a 4 ton breaking strength. It needs to be fairly long to get decent stretch out of it and it certainly is plenty strong for the job. 5/8" nylon breaks at over 6.25 tons. Way too heavy. You might as well use a bar of steel for all the stretch and shock absorbtion you can expect from it.

5/8 nylon in sufficient length has shown to work fine on cruising boats with a reasonable lifetime. 1/2in is certainly fine for most cruising boats. It is likely to have a shorter useful life, something important to full time cruisers.

[Doek]

In rough anchoring conditions, snubbers get abused. They should get routinely replaced as they age and wear. Flipping it end for end occasionally will double its life. Buying one that is too heavy for the job so it lasts longer is a mistake.

[Warren149]

What is the obsession with snubbers? 40 years ago they were barely in use and we all anchored just fine.
It would be much easier to get a combo chain and nylon plait anchor rode and forget the snubber. It would make life a lot easier! Cheers Warren

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Warren149

What is the obsession with snubbers? 40 years ago they were barely in use and we all anchored just fine.
It would be much easier to get a combo chain and nylon plait anchor rode and forget the snubber. It would make life a lot easier! Cheers Warren

Small boats maybe but a snubber IS easier and cheaper than a chain/plait splice.
Larger boats run all chain and not all windlass have the option to run chain/rope even if you wanted to.

[RainDog]

I am surprised what large snubbers people are using. We made our snubber based on Evan Starzinger's design, using Dyneema from the cleat to the bow roller and then 3/8 nylon from there to the anchor (7t boat). We anchored almost every night for 18 months (including a hurricane) using the same piece of nylon. In the end, it still looked pretty good. In the future, I will take thin waters advice and replace it every 6 months.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150212...df/snubber.pdf

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Small boats maybe but a snubber IS easier and cheaper than a chain/plait splice.
Larger boats run all chain and not all windlass have the option to run chain/rope even if you wanted to.

A rope-chain splice is the easy work of 15 minutes. It doesn't compare in expense to a few hundred feet of chain.


But neither of these is the reason to choose combination over all chain. I've had both, and for most people, it comes down to whether the boat can well tolerate the weight of a windlass and a lot of chain. Larger boat, yes, smaller boat, probably not. Personal preference can bend this a good bit either way.


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BTW, if you are using a combination rode, remember that you must have at least 50 feet of rope out, in addition to the chain. If you have only a few feet of rope, that is like using a too-short snubber; you will over stress the rope. Anchor either all-chain, or at least 50 feet of rope. It takes 50 feet to absorb enough energy.

[Doek]

Originally Posted by Warren149

What is the obsession with snubbers? 40 years ago they were barely in use and we all anchored just fine.
It would be much easier to get a combo chain and nylon plait anchor rode and forget the snubber. It would make life a lot easier! Cheers Warren

That would be fine, certainly easier to handle... Until you tried to bring it in and had to deal with somehow switching from rope to chain on the windlass gypsy every time you brought the anchor in. And of course, the first time coral, sharp rocks, or abrasion caused you to lose your anchor and possibly your boat because it cut through the rope section of your rode... that could also be inconvenient. And expensive. You would also give up the added anchoring strength that the caternary of chain gives you. Then there is all the added weight in an all-chain system that helps hold you in place. There are very good reasons for all-chain rodes and snubbers. When I see cruisers with rope rodes, it immediately tells me that I am dealing with a part timer or newbie. They always swing at anchor differently and drag more often that the rest of us as well. I always have to keep an eye on them. Sad, but true.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by RainDog

I am surprised what large snubbers people are using. We made our snubber based on Evan Starzinger's design, using Dyneema from the cleat to the bow roller and then 3/8 nylon from there to the anchor (7t boat). We anchored almost every night for 18 months (including a hurricane) using the same piece of nylon. In the end, it still looked pretty good. In the future, I will take thin waters advice and replace it every 6 months.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150212...df/snubber.pdf

What surprises me is that so many seem to be unaware that boats come in different sizes, windage, and displacement. If 3/8 is good for your 7t, what is "large" for my 65t?

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by thinwater

BTW, if you are using a combination rode, remember that you must have at least 50 feet of rope out, in addition to the chain. If you have only a few feet of rope, that is like using a too-short snubber; you will over stress the rope. Anchor either all-chain, or at least 50 feet of rope. It takes 50 feet to absorb enough energy.

One problem is that if the rode portion provides the same stretch at 50' as a properly sized snubber at 30', the rode is likely undersized.

As others have mentioned, a combination chain/rope is impractical for many vessels. And like others, when we approach a crowded anchorage, we look to see which boats have rope out. Those are the boats we avoid anchoring near, not because we assume they are inexperienced - could be Joshua Slocum for all I know- but because they need so much more space to wander around the anchorage.

[jen1722terry]

Hi,

I posted earlier. We have a smallish (6T, 31") sailboat with 90 feet of chain and 150' 5/8" 8-plait. We use a snubber with rather light (8mm) climbing rope when we anchor in shallower water and cannot let out lots of rode. The snubber makes for a much more comfortable ride in all weather.

We've tried using the chain and 40' -60' of the 8-plait, but it is not as comfortable. We agree that the secret is using a light snubber that will have good stretch. Yes, it could break in a bad storm, but in heavy weather we would probably use two snubbers in a bridle.

The above works for us. The secret for us is to use a snubber that is light enough to have good stretch, but not so light that it would break in moderate winds/seas. Also, we run the snubber from the bow all the way back to a stern cleat using a snatch block mid-ships. This lenght really enhances the ride comfort at anchor.

Happy cruising.

Jenn and Terry

[groundtackle]

This concept has been successful:
Introduced to me a few years ago by a good friend Jonathan Neeves. Twin climbing rope snubbers on his cat lead port/stbd starting fwd running aft along the outboard stanchions. They turn at the stern thru clutches then fwd to available cockpit winches with additional length at the ready. Two snubbers come together fwd and he uses chain hooks of his own design (that I need to play with). Right now I use soft eyes into or tagged around the chain. I like soft eyes as they can be installed on deck between windlass and bow roller then deployed or retrieved without scarring up the bow roller. I also had a whoops moment at night when retrieving, it sent the metal chain hook around a chain sprocket and jammed in the hawse hole. Each snubber has been approx 3x length of vessel, you can always cut it shorter. I enjoy monitoring that snubber and chain conection as its usually around the water surface.
This whole system works wonderfully and with trial and error made it even better:
We all need boom preventers at the ready and these snubbers dual purpose as you usually don't use them at same time. I run them to the outboard boom end or single strop from boom end and eye near the vang making attaching easy and safe. At the bow cleats a Tylaska ferrule gets lashed leaving those cleats accessible for their intended purpose. The ferrule and its lead fully articulates aft as a preventer or fwd as a snubber. My concerns of burning thru bow gel coat or hull side paint hasn't been an issue but each vessel is different and a solvable with guards. Typically one side has a furling line and on that side is stacked double stanchion lead blocks or now prefer to lash ferrules.
Using used climbing rope up to now but perhaps Thinwater could chime in with exactly what line we should use?, I might actually need to buy some new. I have a few rigs out there now and gathering bits to install another. Sorry no pics but i'll get some.

Chris

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Warren149

What is the obsession with snubbers? 40 years ago they were barely in use and we all anchored just fine.

It would be much easier to get a combo chain and nylon plait anchor rode and forget the snubber. It would make life a lot easier! Cheers Warren

In addition to the points already raised in response to your post, a separate snubber gives you much more flexibility in varying anchoring conditions. For example, preparing for a blow in a shallow crowded anchorage when moving is not an option. A long snubber on short scope gives you more shock load absorption. Not ideal but better than hanging just off your chain.

[RainDog]

Originally Posted by Delfin

What surprises me is that so many seem to be unaware that boats come in different sizes, windage, and displacement. If 3/8 is good for your 7t, what is "large" for my 65t?

"large" is 5/8 for a 10t boat as many people suggested they were using.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by thinwater

A rope-chain splice is the easy work of 15 minutes. It doesn't compare in expense to a few hundred feet of chain.

.

Depends on the boat and the rope.
You might be able to do a 12mm 3strand splice in 15 minutes, most of us can't but I would be using 20mm octoplait and the :
Splice for that is beyond my current skill level
The cost of quality octoplait is not far from chain
I doubt a windlass to suit a boat bigger than 50ft has combo chain wheel and while I could get one cast, the cost would negate any saving.
Again, snubbers are cheap.