Cruisers Forum
 


View Poll Results: Which Schedule Is Safer (see post before voting)?
micro-sleeping (e.g. 20 minute naps) 17 73.91%
normal sleeping (e.g. 7-8 hours) 6 26.09%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-07-2017, 17:49   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Back in Montt.
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 8,178
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

I find that when with crew I am quite happy with 3 hours before midnight and then 2 hours from 4 'til 6. (I always keep the 12 to 4 as that means I am never more than 3 night hours away from the deck.)

I haven't done much single handing - just once from Bora Bora to Tonga so warm and dry which makes a big difference.

Was quite happy staying up until about midnight then crashing for 3 or 4 hours... through the following day just closing the eyes now and again was plenty... no sleep as such.. just sitting in the cockpit with the eyes closed...

Maybe its an age thing but even ashore 5 or 6 hours a night is plenty for me.
__________________
A little bit about Chile can be found here https://www.docdroid.net/bO63FbL/202...anchorages-pdf
El Pinguino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2017, 10:41   #47
Registered User
 
Taichungman's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Texas and Taiwan
Posts: 217
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

From reading the post no one deals with it the same or can. My longest was 10 days and I tried the 20 min. cat naps and was a blithering idiot after three days. After five days I was hallucinating, sitting and looking at my chart for hours it seemed and coming to no conclusions. On the 6th day I threw all the potatoes and most of the eggs overboard, took the sails down and went to sleep for 10 hours straight. Woke up a new man, but without potatoes and eggs. This was before internet back in the 80's and crew was hard to come by. I will single hand again but when I get really old and it doesn't make a difference if I make it back or not.
__________________
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
Taichungman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 14:05   #48
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Half Moon Bay, CA, USA
Boat: 1963 Pearson Ariel, Hull 75
Posts: 1,111
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by KISS View Post
So, I've been rereading some information about singlehanding, esp. about sleeping while singlehanding, and thinking about whether "micro-sleeping" or normal sleeping is better. Micro-sleeping makes for better watches for a part of the day, while normal sleeping makes for a more competent sailor for the rest of the day, esp. over the long term. Assuming the singlehander uses the collision avoidance equipment listed below while sleeping, which sleep schedule do you think is safer?

radar with zone alarm
AIS receiver with zone alarm
AIS transponder
proper navigation lights
VHF turned on
steel hull (i.e. giant radar reflector)

P.S. I'm talking about offshore sailing here; obviously one should never be asleep near the coast.
My experience with micro-sleeping is that, after 48 hours maximum, myself and half the other people I've spoken to (and I suspect the rest are liars) begin to experience the "voices from the sea" phenomenon: hearing indistinct voices, music, odd visual hallucinations, etc. Slocum even reported seeing a Spanish captain, in full regalia, who offered to steer his boat.

The effect is technically called hypnagogia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia). In short, you enter a sleep-transition state while part of your mind is still awake. Wakeful sleeping. This is not a safe state of consciousness, and I interpret it as proof micro-sleep does not work long term. As time goes on, it gets worse, until you wake up in some odd place (hopefully not in the water or aground) after sleeping an undesirably long period of time. I feel, if you can't sleep at least 4 uninterrupted hours per day (many people need more), you shouldn't be there.

If you sleep, you might hit something. If you don't sleep, you will lose most of your cognitive ability - and if some emergency does arise - you're likely to get trapped in "analysis paralysis" because your mind simply can't cope with the challenge. Believing you can go multiple days on micro-sleeps is, in my opinion, a delusion that defies nature. You might as well believe you can hold your breath for 30 minutes. And nature will prove that to you when you wake up (hopefully) after an unintended 12 hour "nap."
Cpt Pat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 14:49   #49
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 5,030
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt Pat View Post
I feel, if you can't sleep at least 4 uninterrupted hours per day (many people need more), you shouldn't be there.
."
Done over a month before max an hour at a time solo. No probs at all. At the end of it very relaxed and probably more observant of the real world in the present moment than when land based.

Once you get into the swing of it each wake up is more like a "half" wake up, going through a set check and writing it down. Only if something requires attention does the coffee go on and you really wake up completely.
I probably sleep longer offshore solo, just in shorter increments.
conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 17:27   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Huntington NY
Boat: Tartan 3000
Posts: 357
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmackay View Post
20 minute naps for 2 - 3 days then hove to for a good sleep to catch up. Then do it again.
Safety wise is hove to really any safer than continuing on course at 5 - 8 knots? Either way you can be in the path of a large vessel. Either way you can be seen or not seen equally. If you hove to vs 5 kts you will be spending more time at Sea, added risk also.
Larry Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 17:36   #51
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,561
Images: 2
pirate Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Florida View Post
Safety wise is hove to really any safer than continuing on course at 5 - 8 knots? Either way you can be in the path of a large vessel. Either way you can be seen or not seen equally. If you hove to vs 5 kts you will be spending more time at Sea, added risk also.
More unbroken sleep.. wind can shift.. whatever.. the boat will tend itself.
I have been known to spend a couple of days like that on one or two trips.
__________________

It was a dark and stormy night and the captain of the ship said.. "Hey Jim, spin us a yarn." and the yarn began like this.. "It was a dark and stormy night.."
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 17:57   #52
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Half Moon Bay, CA, USA
Boat: 1963 Pearson Ariel, Hull 75
Posts: 1,111
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Florida View Post
Safety wise is hove to really any safer than continuing on course at 5 - 8 knots? Either way you can be in the path of a large vessel. Either way you can be seen or not seen equally. If you hove to vs 5 kts you will be spending more time at Sea, added risk also.


If I hit a floating object while hove to at 2 knots, I hit it with less than 1/4 the force as at 5 knots. And I can get underway in less than a minute if something's about to hit me. Also, any other vessel under sail should be able to recognize my jib taken aback and know that I'm hove to (except, those newbies who never learned how to heave to).

My boat tends itself quite nicely when hove to (modified full keel).

I sleep hove to, or if it's really ruff, with a sea anchor. I also raise an oversized "mike" flag when using the sea anchor. Though technically I'm not "stopped" with the sea anchor, my actual speed in 40 knots of wind is only 0.3 knots - which I feel is close enough to being "stopped".


I've seen people display a red-over-red light at night, though that use just for getting some sleep is debatable.
Cpt Pat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 18:12   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Huntington NY
Boat: Tartan 3000
Posts: 357
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
More unbroken sleep.. wind can shift.. whatever.. the boat will tend itself.
I have been known to spend a couple of days like that on one or two trips.
This point seems very useful. If hove to is safe it does offer an opportunity for much needed sleep.

In moderaate conditions, say less than 20 kts, would be interesting to compare risk of being hove to vs anchoring near to shore in similar conditions. Anchoring seems very low risk.
Larry Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 18:19   #54
Registered User
 
danielamartindm's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
Boat: Leopard 39
Posts: 860
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Thank you for starting a GREAT thread. Single handed passage making is a physical challenge to maintain an adequate watch, and to be able to react to changing conditions. We aren't always aware of the erosion of our cognitive processes as sleeplessness takes its toll, and little boat/big ocean is not consistent with safety or common sense. Tech has really evolved to help the sleeping single hander stay safe.
danielamartindm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 19:15   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Out of Norfolk Va
Boat: Tartan 37
Posts: 687
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmackay View Post
20 minute naps for 2 - 3 days then hove to for a good sleep to catch up. Then do it again.
There is nothing worse than a sailboat with no sails up in the ocean. Plus you are much more visible with sails up.

With AIS you're seeing out min 20 miles, most ships run close to 20kts. So sleep 30-45 look around and catch another. I have a tough time sleeping as a capt offshore but sleep like a baby as a crew.
puffcard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 19:40   #56
Registered User
 
goat's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Everywhere (Sea of Cortez right now)
Boat: PSC Orion 27
Posts: 1,377
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by puffcard View Post
There is nothing worse than a sailboat with no sails up in the ocean. Plus you are much more visible with sails up.

With AIS you're seeing out min 20 miles, most ships run close to 20kts. So sleep 30-45 look around and catch another. I have a tough time sleeping as a capt offshore but sleep like a baby as a crew.
Sails are up when hove too.
goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 21:14   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,075
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Once did 72 hours without sleep and no self steering. Was being attacked by torpedoes and other interesting hallucinations at the end.
Wow, roverhi, you beat my personal best of 56 hours. Well done!

I had similar periods of hallucinations after 48 hours, peppered with intense brain activity and teary-eyed laughter at the purple dolphins who were dancing and grinning and singing Bob Marley. (some of that may have been real?)

The log book ultimately sported weird math equations in my hand writing, a cartoon about a spotted dog with a satellite dish for a tail, and and an emotionally-charged paragraph defending confused seas as simply misunderstood by humans.

I've heard of acid trips but never tried one. However, I'm convinced that my sleep-deprived brain simulated such a thing. Thinking back, I doubt my decision-making ability was 30% normal, but weather and equipment dictated the marathon. (not even solo- long story)
cyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 21:37   #58
Registered User
 
MartinR's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Boat: 73´ULDB custom ketch
Posts: 1,069
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Sleeping is actually not allowed:

COLREG rule 5: Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and or the risk of collision

So maybe best do without
MartinR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 23:19   #59
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Half Moon Bay, CA, USA
Boat: 1963 Pearson Ariel, Hull 75
Posts: 1,111
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinR View Post
Sleeping is actually not allowed:

COLREG rule 5: Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and or the risk of collision

So maybe best do without
This is an old and often repeated point of contention. You are of course technically correct. But a strict interpretation requiring someone on deck keeping a continual human lookout would also forbid using the head, preparing food down below, etc. Strict adherence to this rule would then entirely forbid single-handed sailing beyond human endurance for going without biological necessities. It would also completely outlaw unmanned surface vessels, of which there are now many, and soon to be more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_surface_vehicle.

I interpret the intent of this rule as saying: do everything you can and use all available tools to avoid a collision. Humans require sleep and food to function in any kind of watchkeeping role, so attending to those needs is part of "doing all you can."

If the "prevailing circumstances" are open ocean and the single-handed sailor maintains an "electronic watch" with RADAR and/or AIS, then my interpretation is the sailor is in compliance since - foregoing sleep would diminish the vessel's safety. Single handers who claim they can go days at a time without sleep are actually doing single-handed sailing a disservice by setting an expectation that humans can actually accomplish such a feat.

The Coast Guard has for many years approved organized single-handed races that last weeks. They know full well that humans cannot go weeks at a time without sleep.
Cpt Pat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 23:57   #60
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,756
Re: Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

A sleep cycle is about 90mins, with multiple needed over a twenty four hour period. Everyone will know what it's like to break a sleep cycle and feel tired and groggy afterwards. If you don't get all the stages of the sleep cycle you've got a problem.

The deep sleep part is the most important, but since you can't just skip stages any waking period means you got to go through the cycle again. Though I find parts can then be accelerated.

For me the most important thing is that my sleeping period at least covers a full cycle and is sufficient to recover from the period that I've been awake. So 4-5 cycles for a full day awake, maybe 2 cycles for 8 hours awake, 1 for 4-6 hours awake etc..

20-30 minute power naps are supposedly proven to help you feel refreshed but don't make up for poor sleep otherwise.
mikedefieslife is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
single

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To SLEEP or not to SLEEP the under cover story! Hunky Dory Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 5 31-03-2017 08:41
oil change schedule mestrezat Construction, Maintenance & Refit 20 06-01-2008 14:35
The Weather makes the schedule Alan Wheeler The Sailor's Confessional 0 01-09-2007 22:34
Watch Schedule of the Future? N.M.I.ke General Sailing Forum 18 24-09-2006 13:06
Maintenance + Cleaning Schedule Howard K Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 01-06-2005 22:20

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.