Singlehanded Sleep Schedule

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by KISS

It doesn't work that way.

REM Sleep

.

That's fine.

Youre right.

It's the Internet. Of course I don't know what I'm talking about.

Good night.

[KISS]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

That's fine.

Youre right.

It's the Internet. Of course I don't know what I'm talking about.

Good night.

What I'm saying isn't very controversial, as some googling would show. There's a reason people only resort to micro-sleeping in unusual situations. Anyway, I'm not going to debate it any further. The thread is about whether the trade off involved in micro-sleeping is worth it, not whether there is a trade off (which there obviously is).

[barnakiel]

Microsleep can only be managed by trained people and in short term.

Unless you are a superhuman trained by IMOCA teams (or a Solar Impulse pilot), you cannot properly apply the rules nor are you able to control your level of tiredness.

The question is not valid. Better is what works better but the systems compared need a common base, which is not the case.

Cheers,
b.

[davil]

my last google quest for wisdom brings the Uberman cycle I did not know.

Alternative Sleep Cycles: You Don't Really Need 6-8 Hours! | High Existence

[KISS]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

The question is not valid. Better is what works better but the systems compared need a common base, which is not the case.

I don't know what you mean. The "common base" is everything other than the sleep cycle. Ceteris paribus (i.e. with whatever boat you want to imagine, in whatever conditions you want to imagine, etc, and with the listed collision avoidance equipment), which is safer? There may be no definitive answer for lack of information, but the question is not "invalid."

[hellosailor]

Kiss-
There's been a hundred years or so of sleep research and it always comes up the same way. While there is great variation in persons, the average human *must* have a 5-6 hour "great sleep" every 24 hours, or they start to have fatigue issues. They may think they are not having problems, but objective testing shows performance degradation. Surprising little things, like the number of errors doubles when a shift worker goes from 8 hour shifts to 12 hour shifts.
Doesn't matter who is superman, they still need a "great sleep" every day. Preferably a longer one, 7+ hours.

Now for solo sailing? You may not be able to make that safe choice, because the boat can be left unattended that long. Which gets into the different larger debate: There is no way to sail solo on long passages and maintain an adequate watch. So there's no question of safety, no matter how you slice it it is unsafe to push that envelope.

But that's a personal choice and you do what you gotta do. If you want to do it safely...you need a crew, to stand watch while you are sleeping. Better, two crew, so you can rotate and no one has to stand more than a 2-4 hour watch, because yes, fatigue effects come up even then.

Safety is a relative thing. As Admiral Hopper said, ships in port are safe, but that's not what ships are meant to be. Yes?

[KISS]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Kiss-
There's been a hundred years or so of sleep research and it always comes up the same way. While there is great variation in persons, the average human *must* have a 5-6 hour "great sleep" every 24 hours, or they start to have fatigue issues. They may think they are not having problems, but objective testing shows performance degradation. Surprising little things, like the number of errors doubles when a shift worker goes from 8 hour shifts to 12 hour shifts.

Doesn't matter who is superman, they still need a "great sleep" every day. Preferably a longer one, 7+ hours.

Indeed

Now for solo sailing? You may not be able to make that safe choice, because the boat can be left unattended that long. Which gets into the different larger debate: There is no way to sail solo on long passages and maintain an adequate watch. So there's no question of safety, no matter how you slice it it is unsafe to push that envelope.

But that's a personal choice and you do what you gotta do. If you want to do it safely...you need a crew, to stand watch while you are sleeping. Better, two crew, so you can rotate and no one has to stand more than a 2-4 hour watch, because yes, fatigue effects come up even then.

Safety is a relative thing. As Admiral Hopper said, ships in port are safe, but that's not what ships are meant to be. Yes?

To my way of thinking, the risk of collision on the high seas is so trivial to begin with, and then reduced even more by radar and AIS, that it just doesn't make sense to go sleep deprived for weeks at a time to maintain a slightly better watch. The risk of everything going wrong at the same time and getting slammed by a supertanker in broad daylight while I'm asleep is less, I think, that the risk of badly mishandling the boat when awake as a result of sleep deprivation. That's my sense anyway.

[Sandero]

Assuming that there is nothing smash into... there is the weather which can change and doesn't give a damn about your sleeping.... You have to deal with it,

[StuM]

Originally Posted by jmackay

20 minute naps for 2 - 3 days then hove to for a good sleep to catch up. Then do it again.

Why do you heave too?

[gamayun]

I just spent 3 nights and 3 days offshore solo. My previous longest solo passage was 24 hours so this is a limited data point. "Routine" has never been something I live by. And we can debate the solo versus safe watchstandIng forever, but with with radar and AIS, I slept when I felt like it, mostly during the day, and mostly in the cockpit with a good pillow though I can fall asleep on a metal grate, if need be. I found that I started to go into a pattern of 1-2 hours asleep, 2 hours awake, with longer periods of wakefulness at night, but I didn't document any of it. I am generally a night owl so I think that also has a lot to do with whether we can maintain alertness at night or not, as well as our state of sleep deprivation or other physical conditions such as sea sickness and being cold.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Now for solo sailing? You may not be able to make that safe choice, because the boat can be left unattended that long. Which gets into the different larger debate: There is no way to sail solo on long passages and maintain an adequate watch. So there's no question of safety, no matter how you slice it it is unsafe to push that envelope.

I'd argue that two people can be sketchy also.

A big issue is that you are most tired at landfall when there are the most number of challenges and judgment must be sharpest.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I'd argue that two people can be sketchy also.

A big issue is that you are most tired at landfall when there are the most number of challenges and judgment must be sharpest.

From experience I would disagree with that and the quote, for ocean passages anyway, any kind of distance coastal is really no fun solo . Ocean there's a strong argument that with radar & ais alarm well set up a well run solo boat is actually keeping a better watch than many crewed boats running with no radar to keep power down and a crew on watch on a moonless night head in a kindle as must be the case a week or 2 out on a great many crewed boats.

After a long distance offshore passage I find I'm much sharper than coastal day sailing, extremely well tuned into the boat and well rested, very relaxed after days on end away from the distractions of land based life. You are not at your most tired at all, more like much more in tune with the boat and the ocean and better rested than the first good few days ( 5 - 7 days I find) as your body and mind adjust.

[Snowpetrel]

I think its a very personal descision. For me in mid tasman with few ships about I figured fatigue was a bigger danger. I dont cope well with extended periods of poor sleep. I can still function but no where near 100% and my margins for dealing with the unexpected are reduced if I am already pushing fatigue limits. So for me getting the sleep my body needed worked, and relying on my senses rather than an alarmclock kept me well rested.

In a different bit of sea with more traffic things would be different and I might try another approach.

Some people need less sleep than others. So I think its very much up to the individual to make the choices and accept the risks, which after all is what singlehanding is all about.

[Foolish]

Hi guys, thanks for mentioning my singlehanded tips book. There is a newer edition of the free version here: http://sfbaysss.org/resource/doc/Sin...rdEdition2.pdf

As mentioned elsewhere, your sleep schedule really depends on where you are sailing. In the Figaro race series, they are sailing in a fleet of 50+ boats, all close together, and they often are dodging rocks along their preferred route. So 20 minute naps is all they can ever hope for.

Once away from shore, it is easy to have much longer sleeps. Personally I don't use any alarm, I just sleep as long as it takes me and wake up when I do. AIS alarm systems will wake you when something is getting near.

I often sleep in a sitting hammock in the cockpit, so any change in the weather will quickly wake me up.

Have fun.

[roverhi]

Assuming solo sailing. At sea I've always slept when I was tired and as long as I needed. Normally don't sleep through the night waking up with no more than 4-5 hours of continuous sleep and take a look around. Weather permitting I sleep on the bridge deck in the cockpit

Coastal Sailing try not to sleep breaking up passages no longer than 48 hours. Once did 72 hours without sleep and no self steering. Was being attacked by torpedoes and other interesting hallucinations at the end. Just finished a delivery from SF to Oceanside with stops at Monterey and Morro Bay. Longest passage was 48 hours. Had a hell of a time not nodding off and wished I'd had some timing device to wake me up periodically. Did nod off for an hour or so at a time when I just couldn't fight it. Was interesting that those two short periods sleep really rejuvenated me and left me wide awake for the rest of the day.