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Old 04-05-2016, 21:35   #31
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Re: Self taught sailing

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Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
Biplane.😉


S/V B'Shert
The two wings on the Wright Biplane are like the Main and a jib. They interact and help each other. Their fuselage was a single (efficient) hull not a complicated multi fuselage. 😏😁
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Old 04-05-2016, 22:26   #32
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Re: Self taught sailing

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
There is sailing and cruising, sailors are not necessarily good cruisers and cruisers are not necessarily good sailors. You can learn anything you want by teaching yourself if that's what you like to do. Someone can show you something in 5 minutes that it might take you an hours reading so it's up to you how quick you want to learn something. If you really want to learn to sail get out on a race boat and start by crewing. If your a good observer and your with a good crew you will learn tons as well as have good times. Good cruisers have learned a detailed skillset that allows them to safely cross oceans and the skills to sail in a variety of conditions, all the while maintaining their boat and properly provisioning it. Many real good cruisers are marginal sailors at best but always get where they are going safely if not slowly. Sailing is like flying, you never quit learning and that's one of the really attractive aspects to this lifestyle.
I strongly disagree wiht this post. Though I suspect it's more terminology than anything else.

There is 'cruising' and there is 'racing', both are sailors and both can be excellent sailors. There is a saying that 'cruising' will teach you seamanship and 'racing' will teach you sailmanship, as in how to expertly use the sails to gain more speed.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:36   #33
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Re: Self taught sailing

I have learned mostly from reading, and a few videos (Penny Whitings How To Sail). Been planning this for two years, and just bought our first sailboat, a 38' catamaran in January and are just going and doing it.
Can others go faster than me? Yes. But I've got 25 years to explore the Caribbean.
Just taking our time enjoying the islands.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:45   #34
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Re: Self taught sailing

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
in my boat instructions also says to minimise any turbulence after wind leaves sail.

Turbulence generated after wind leaves sail, slows the boat.

telltales will not say that.
As stated above leech tell tales will help. But, once the air leaves the sail, it does not matter. As long as the disturbance does not alter how the air continues to flow over the sail.

Go back to the core concept. Since the sail is an airfoil, once the air leaves the sail-its job is done and what it does is irrelevant. The only slight exception would be the jib. That is because when air leaves the job, it will interact with the main. But if the air leaves the main cleanly, and then the flow is interrupted by the skipper standing on the stern seat to see something- it would have no impact on the sail's efficiency.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:07   #35
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pirate Re: Self taught sailing

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I strongly disagree wiht this post. Though I suspect it's more terminology than anything else.

There is 'cruising' and there is 'racing', both are sailors and both can be excellent sailors. There is a saying that 'cruising' will teach you seamanship and 'racing' will teach you sailmanship, as in how to expertly use the sails to gain more speed.
I get what he's saying.. I regard myself as a 'Crap Sailor' but consider myself an able seaman.
That's not to say I cannot go fast.. raced a GK29 from Alderney to Gurnsey when we had to leave due to a forecast F8 N'Easterly... it was my ex and me on a Westerly Longbow vs the GK29 with 7 Royal Marines.. we held them.
A seaman's mindset is different.. he'll think of the stress's on the boat, gear and crew.. the racer just thinks of the finish line.. and damn the consequence's..
But then.. I was taught as a seaman 1st and a sailor 2nd
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:56   #36
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Re: Self taught sailing

Had a guy on the dock hollering at me to let my sail out last time I launched at that location.... He was all upset that I wasn't going as fast as possible. (with no other boats actually moving in the area...)

The wind in the cove was swirling, At the ramp it was almost directly south. As I was passing the dock it was almost directly north. I was continuing to hold it close hauled because the boat was moving adequately and the wind was very light (too light to flip it if I stayed in the center under the boom) and... I DIDN'T WANT THE BOOM SWINGING ALL OVER THE PLACE with each wind change...
And I wasn't in a hurry to run into the boats & rafts (They call them party barges) tied to moorings all around me while dealing with readjusting sails every 5 seconds.

Sometimes you just don't care if the sail is working efficiently. Sometimes you want the sail to do very little.

Racers always seem to be looking for max speed, even if that's not the best thing to do at the moment.
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:26   #37
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Re: Self taught sailing

Going from mostly racing to cruising though does have it's advantages.

A racer usually knows when he is putting to much stress on the boat either from his knowledge of sailing and boats or from having broken boats, broken masts, ruined sails, ripped sails, broken rigging, etc.

Also, you can be pretty hard on a boat with an 8 to 1 main block, 4 to 1 downhaul, etc especially on a 300 lb boat with a carbon fiber mast

After years of racing, it's nice not to have to worry about get every possible bit of speed out of the boat and just making it go through the water fairly fast without bending, breaking, or overstressing. This goes for both the boat and your body

It's also nice to have ballast on the keel rather than being the ballast especially while also sailing the boat. And being dry.........for the most part
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Old 06-05-2016, 02:27   #38
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Re: Self taught sailing

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A racer usually knows when he is putting to much stress on the boat either from his knowledge of sailing and boats or from having broken boats, broken masts, ruined sails, ripped sails, broken rigging, etc.
Hmmm, I'm not sure that's my experience. Probably depends on beer can versus one-design versus circuit, throw in owners' risk profile....

Some even consider gear bustin' a badge of courage!
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Old 06-05-2016, 04:34   #39
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Re: Self taught sailing

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Hmmm, I'm not sure that's my experience. Probably depends on beer can versus one-design versus circuit, throw in owners' risk profile....

Some even consider gear bustin' a badge of courage!
I was talking Beachcat Racing: one design, PHRF, distance racing, (30-100 miles) beer can racing, Wednesday Night Racing, Good Time Regatta's, and just racing from the mainland to the barrier Islands for a beer maybe 9-10 months out of the year for 15 years on 4 different boats both old and new.

The boats usually weighed around 300lbs with top speeds to about mid 20's.

The regatta and distance races had anywhere from 20-80 boats. It was usually around 30-35 though which still made for a crowded starting line and first few mark roundings

Bending aluminum masts from pitchpoling in shallow water, breaking a carbon fiber mast, being pushed into the side of a bridge in traffic while sailing under one upwind and damaging the boat, breaking spinlocks, destroying traveler cars, doing heavy damage to a daggerboard from hitting an underwater piling at 15 knots while double trapped, etc. Then sails that had to be replaced after breaking a mast since they had been stretched out of shape

And that was just on my boats. Others had forward sections of hulls torn off after getting T-Boned, damaged hulls that needed to be repaired after on the water crashes.......

All these lessons are useful should a racer decide to become a cruiser. It's especially nice just to be on a boat with good ballast simply sailing along enjoying the scenery
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Old 06-05-2016, 05:00   #40
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Re: Self taught sailing

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Originally Posted by Snore View Post
As stated above leech tell tales will help. But, once the air leaves the sail, it does not matter. As long as the disturbance does not alter how the air continues to flow over the sail.

Go back to the core concept. Since the sail is an airfoil, once the air leaves the sail-its job is done and what it does is irrelevant. The only slight exception would be the jib. That is because when air leaves the job, it will interact with the main. But if the air leaves the main cleanly, and then the flow is interrupted by the skipper standing on the stern seat to see something- it would have no impact on the sail's efficiency.
this is from manual:
One should always look for the sail angle of attack to be headed to the
apparent wind and the sails to be not over-trimmed so that the airflows
leaving the sail are parallel to each other, that is to say they do not create
turbulence behind the sail.
----------
see this for example

https://youtu.be/6UlsArvbTeo

i think directly applies to sails
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:36   #41
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Self taught sailing

Once again, "as long as the disturbance does not alter how the air continues to move over the sail".

We are saying the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
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Old 07-05-2016, 10:04   #42
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Re: Self taught sailing

If you have only ONE book to read, this should be the one:

Sail Trim Users Guide
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Old 07-05-2016, 15:42   #43
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Re: Self taught sailing

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If you have only ONE book to read, this should be the one:

Sail Trim Users Guide
I have North U Trim but book is monohull centric. Advantages of cat like wide traveller, barber hauler applications are ignored.

Gregor Tarjan book found best applicable to cats, but then, he is Lagoon hater too.
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Old 07-05-2016, 16:04   #44
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Ahahahahaaa... I don't think I'll bother.
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Old 07-05-2016, 18:27   #45
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Re: Self taught sailing

I started out self taught on my McGreagor 21. Got to a point where I would be invited to be rail meat on race boats and later on cruising boats. I've had my fair share of mistakes but all in all became a fair sailor. I'm not in a hurry, so I make less stupid mistakes.
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