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Old 19-01-2010, 14:40   #16
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You lucky dog! Sailing in January. My boat is high n dry on the blocks and will be til May01. Man I hope I get to be a liveaboard soon, sailing in winter is a joy.

As for the mistakes, none were serious, you've learned from them, and wont make them again. Handling your jib on dec has been well covered as well.

As for those who are giving you guff about going out in January with a couple of kids, I wouldn't worry too much about them. A lot of them probably hop on snow mobiles and zip across lakes at warp 6 thinking (hoping) the ice is thick enough. At least a boat is designed to float. If it concerns you, make sure you and your crew are wearing harnesses. I expect exposure suits are a bit much to ask for this early in your learning curve but might be a good idea for next winter. In the mean time make sure your tail stays IN the boat. I went overboard in toronto harbour on april 12th one year, and it wasn't pleasant. I figure I came within a minute or two of becoming an iceberg. I was lucky that one of the crew was competant, (the skipper was an idiot.) and managed to get my carcass back aboard in time. Then I found out that there was no dry clothing, towels or sleeping bags aboard. All i had was an oily sleeping bag stuffed under the engine to catch drips. I ended up wearing my wrung out cloths until we got into the slip.

You might want to make sure that there are decent supplies to handle a man overboard. I trust you remember the old technique for warming a hypothermia victim? Strip both of you down to your underware, and climb into a sleeping bag together. Never mind modesty or any other concerns. The victim may well die if you don't.

Other wise, enjoy the sailing and remember, I'm jealous as hell!


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Old 19-01-2010, 14:47   #17
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Sabre, I did have extra clothes and towels and a heater onboard in case someone, somehow got soaked. I have a MOB bag/throwline, but not one of the fancy MOB harnesses. I have a regular working harness. Days like yesterday are a fluke. It was just too good to waste. One of the benefits of going out in January is that the rivers and the Bay traffic are low. This gives me a lot of room and a lot of time for mistakes and manuvers.

It'll be hell come summertime and I'd better be on top of my game then.

Solitude- Thanks for the info about the special jib bags. I'll check that out.
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Old 19-01-2010, 15:39   #18
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good, you've got that base covered then. Keep at it, you seem to be doing fine on the learning curve. I hope the weather keeps being agreeable for you.

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Old 19-01-2010, 16:29   #19
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I always put the reefs in as I lower the main.
I don't know what the weather will be next time I go out. But I'm in sheltered water so winds up to 40kts are sailable. And I've got to learn.
Good neighbour showed me how to rig a single line reefing system, (there two of them) so sail area can be limited.
Last windy day the roller reefing jammed, had to drop the genoa on a lively deck. Love Cats. And mesh filled rails. Getting it off was fairly easy, getting it stowed? Easier than I expected. Hinged lids, big opening, spare anchor handy to hold it all down. And a helmsman and an engine. And enough sea room.
How many Mistakes was that?
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Old 19-01-2010, 16:45   #20
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A check list is one of the most useful things to have when you are learning how to sail and I admit to always using one after many years at sea.

From your “lesson’s learned” the list grows into sub-categories and becomes a useful tool whenever you are distracted or complacency sets in.

Don’t forget to ask the kids if they had fun and what lessons they learned
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Old 19-01-2010, 18:57   #21
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Controlling the genoa- on our Catalina 27, we used three sail ties, attached to the bow pulpit rail and one stanchion using lark's head knots. We arranged the genoa along the port side of the foredeck and then tied the sail to the rail using the ends of the sail ties.

When you let the sail loose to raise it, the ties stay attached to the boat, ready for when the sail comes down again. I also used to try to tie the genoa up off the deck as much as possible to help minimize how wet it got in our wonderful Chesapeake chop.

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Old 19-01-2010, 23:54   #22
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Pelagic, you wouldn't want to share that check list with the rest of us BTW? It sounds like a good idea.
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Old 20-01-2010, 05:30   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
A check list is one of the most useful things to have when you are learning how to sail and I admit to always using one after many years at sea.

From your “lesson’s learned” the list grows into sub-categories and becomes a useful tool whenever you are distracted or complacency sets in.

Don’t forget to ask the kids if they had fun and what lessons they learned
I did, and they did. They're both very good but one seems to have a stronger interest than the other. I want her to take the ASA 101 with me in the Spring. I'd like to get her her own little dinghy sailer for the cove and Whitemarsh Creek someday, if her interest peaks that high.

Yeah Pel, share your checklist with us. I think it'd be very beneficial.
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Old 20-01-2010, 06:19   #24
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GOTTA LOVE THE DISCLAIMER "I assessed the risks", "I've been to the Arctic (and that has what to do with sailing?), "I provided training (what sort, since you admit you have no experience) blah, blah blah. I was especially touched by the lipservice comment about being the unknowing public expecting you to be fully trained by someone. Well, it is not fully trained that you should seek, no one expects that, but with NO experience, perhaps you should have less bravado and more reality in your life. You accept responsibility, but what would that matter to the victim if something tragic happened. But then again, at least you used YOUR kids and not someone elses, so you were right, it is ALL you dude.

Let's see . . . you know, well, not much. The kids know even less. There is ice on the top of the water. You have two sails up. You say you already were getting flogged a bit by the jib at one point. 10-15 knots with chances of higher gusts. A small boat that is easily pushed etc by wind and current. Everyone has on several layers of clothes that will weigh them down lots if they fall in. Hyperthermia takes about two minutes to tire any MOB to the point of going down. All of these "we envy you for sailing in January". THIS IS WHY INSURANCE COSTS AN ARM AND A LEG. THIS IS WHY EVERY YOU HEAR COAST GUARD CALLS UP AND DOWN THE INTERCOASTAL OF REPORTS OF SOMEONE IN THE WATER. This is not a joke, sailing while inexperienced in harsh conditions (yes, these are harsh conditions) and using two teenagers with no experience as crew is just plain stupid.

I saw guys like you last year in the Chesapeake as we sailed through on two occasions, I had to take actions not to run into you as you cut across the channels, out of control while "learning". WHile I only have about 3000 miles under my belt, I have to say that not once have I put myself purposely in a situation that would imperil others (think Coast Guard or perhaps the kids) because I "just couldn't help myself" or "I couldn't pass up the opportunity to sail" that day. To do so would be selfish and self centered. To involve two kids in my folly would be almost criminal, or at least is should be.
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Old 20-01-2010, 06:52   #25
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GOTTA LOVE THE DISCLAIMER "I assessed the risks", "I've been to the Arctic (and that has what to do with sailing?), "I provided training (what sort, since you admit you have no experience) blah, blah blah. I was especially touched by the lipservice comment about being the unknowing public expecting you to be fully trained by someone. Well, it is not fully trained that you should seek, no one expects that, but with NO experience, perhaps you should have less bravado and more reality in your life. You accept responsibility, but what would that matter to the victim if something tragic happened. But then again, at least you used YOUR kids and not someone elses, so you were right, it is ALL you dude.

Let's see . . . you know, well, not much. The kids know even less. There is ice on the top of the water. You have two sails up. You say you already were getting flogged a bit by the jib at one point. 10-15 knots with chances of higher gusts. A small boat that is easily pushed etc by wind and current. Everyone has on several layers of clothes that will weigh them down lots if they fall in. Hyperthermia takes about two minutes to tire any MOB to the point of going down. All of these "we envy you for sailing in January". THIS IS WHY INSURANCE COSTS AN ARM AND A LEG. THIS IS WHY EVERY YOU HEAR COAST GUARD CALLS UP AND DOWN THE INTERCOASTAL OF REPORTS OF SOMEONE IN THE WATER. This is not a joke, sailing while inexperienced in harsh conditions (yes, these are harsh conditions) and using two teenagers with no experience as crew is just plain stupid.

I saw guys like you last year in the Chesapeake as we sailed through on two occasions, I had to take actions not to run into you as you cut across the channels, out of control while "learning". WHile I only have about 3000 miles under my belt, I have to say that not once have I put myself purposely in a situation that would imperil others (think Coast Guard or perhaps the kids) because I "just couldn't help myself" or "I couldn't pass up the opportunity to sail" that day. To do so would be selfish and self centered. To involve two kids in my folly would be almost criminal, or at least is should be.

Did you miss your spaceship or did they leave you on porpose?
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Old 20-01-2010, 07:41   #26
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If your going to dog someone over their actions, at least get your $#!* straight.

Hyperthermia is an elevated body temperature due to failed thermoregulation. Hyperthermia occurs when the body produces or absorbs more heat than it can dissipate.
Hypothermia is a condition in which an organism's temperature drops below that required for normal metabolism and body functions.

Never been new at anything in your life? Made correct decisions everytime, have we? Learners of the type you speak of sound like a lot of the experienced but irresponsible a-holes I've seen zipping all over with no regard for others.
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Old 20-01-2010, 07:51   #27
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Oh and BTW, here's the Gerr downhaul for ya'll.....
To me the rings on this rig looks like a "chafe-a-thon" waiting to happen. Opinions?

Jib "Jackline" System
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Old 20-01-2010, 09:24   #28
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For those of you who've made supportive comments and provided constructive advice, I thank you.

I won't pollute the forum with a pissing contest between waterworldly and myself, but I did respond to him privately because I feel I deserve an opportunity to rebut his statement.

To me the humorous thing is, I've had 3 seperate offers from forum members who've followed this thread to crew for me.

Personally, I feel there's a trade-off to be had here:

It's cold and the water is dangerous but I knew this and strongly considered it but there's also no traffic on the water this time of year which gives me a little extra safety to learn.

Waterworldly would be just as critical of me if it were June, because he feels that I'm the guy that just "cuts across the channel". So by his criteria, there's never a good time to learn and apparently ASA 101 automatically imparts common sense as well as sailing skill. You can attend the class and still be a crappy sailor.

The bottom line is:

At some point, (whether you've had the 101 or not) you will get on the water with .01% experience. You aren't "born" with experience. The trick is to have the steepest learning curve possible, so that you can be as safe as possible.

Something else I'm kind of curious about is the fact that experienced sailors seem to totally disqualify any kind of previous maritime experience. That just baffles me. Is 20 years of Navy experience and an entire childhood spent on the Florida waters suddenly invalid?

I did not spend 20 years in an air-conditioned compartment in the bowels of an aircraft carrier. I was a lookout, helmsman, radar operator and communications tech on submarines for 11 years. The remaining 9 years, I spent on small, high speed gunboats as gunner, engineer, then captain with three crewmembers. I served in the Persian Gulf, escorting coalition shipping. I never wrote a condolence letter. I brought the crew home safely every time.

So let's separate the two items here:

I know the ROTR, the COLREGS. I know my shapes, lights and colors. I understand who's the burdened and priviledged vessel (as it applies to sail vs. power, and sail vs. sail as well) I know how to read charts and navigate. My kids have been on the water with me since they were 8. I have imparted my maritime knowledge to them. I keep refreshing myself on this, never just assuming that I remember it all.

What I (we) do NOT know, is the art of sail, which is considerable, and can be very dangerous. I know what I do not know. I have a lot to learn.

It seems on all three sailing forums that I've visited, that being new to sailing automatically means: "Hi! I'm from Colorado and I've never seen water in liquid form. I bought a 30' sailboat and I am departing for the Bahamas tomorrow. Do you have any advice for me?"

Anyone else ever get this feeling?
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Old 20-01-2010, 14:37   #29
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To me the rings on this rig looks like a "chafe-a-thon" waiting to happen. Opinions?
Hi Fishman -
I had this rigged on my old gaffer and never had any chafe problems. Since the hanks have the sail out from the stay the rings rarely if ever make contact anyway. Neither the rings or the downhaul line need to be very big. It takes some fiddling with to make work smoothly but it was worth it to me since my forestay was out on the end of a widowmaker of a bowsprit.
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Old 20-01-2010, 15:42   #30
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It looks useful.
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