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Old 01-07-2018, 18:37   #121
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

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Originally Posted by CFS Klopas View Post
In the 10 months I've owned my boat, it has left the harbor 4 times and was towed in twice. I'll be carrying tow insurance forever.


Iím sorry, but that is funny.
Hopefully now you have paid your dues to Poseidon and wonít need another tow.
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Old 10-08-2018, 15:04   #122
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

An unplanned ďincidentĒ that could cost me thousands is something Iíd have trouble with, whereas $179/year is very much doable.
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Old 10-08-2018, 15:13   #123
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

Not having read all of this, I still advocate free support and help between boaters.

What Jammer wrote is a perfect example. Well done!

Have towed and offered help a few times and will not take anything than an honest thank you for it.
One day I need help I appreciate if someone offers the same.

Just to sad that people are not willing to help because of the craziness of sueing each other is around.

Seems a bit pervert that along some coasts there are scavengers around just waiting to take advantage of someone's misfortune. Sometimes they try even to push people away who offer free help instead.

Am I old fashioned?

Of course insurance for this is an option, but there were times this was not necessary.
And yes there are times one needs professional help.
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Old 10-08-2018, 21:51   #124
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Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

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Have towed and offered help a few times and will not take anything than an honest thank you for it.
One day I need help I appreciate if someone offers the same.
Over here we have to rely on each other. The Coast Guard refuses to intervene unless itís life threatening or your a terrorist with AKís.

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Just to sad that people are not willing to help because of the craziness of sueing each other is around.
I believe thatís just an American thing. Havenít noticed that anywhere else in the world.


By the way, my brain is hurting trying to figure out what a ďMilkytoastĒ is 🤨
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:47   #125
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

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Originally Posted by makobuilders View Post
By the way, my brain is hurting trying to figure out what a ďMilkytoastĒ is 🤨

According to Merriam-Webster's 3rd New International Dictionary of the English Language:
Quote:
Caspar Milquetoast was a comic strip character created in 1924 by the American cartoonist Harold T. Webster. The strip, called "The Timid Soul," ran every Sunday in the New York Herald Tribune for many years. Webster, who claimed that Milquetoast was a self-portrait, summed up the character as "the man who speaks softly and gets hit with a big stick." The earliest examples for Milquetoast used as a generic synonym for "timid person" date from the mid-1930s. Caspar's last name might remind you of "milk toast," a bland concoction of buttered toast served in a dish of warm milk.
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Old 11-08-2018, 11:43   #126
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

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According to Merriam-Webster's 3rd New International Dictionary of the English Language:
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Old 11-08-2018, 12:30   #127
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

I haven't read all of this either, but I have Tow Boat US coverage, and will continue to buy it.

Bought my boat in Maryland last October, and sailed it to Florida a few days later. Along about Cape Fear a noise started up in the Port saildrive. Shut that one down. We needed fuel anyway, so we decided to head in at SouthPort. New to me boat, in an unfamiliar inlet that can have strong current, and it was getting dark, on one engine that could easily just twist me in circles. No reason to risk going aground in my new boat, so I called for a tow. I had a limited plan with Tow Boat US. The tow in cost me $300, and I of course also upgraded to the unlimited plan for another $150.

It turned out there was no place to haul out and find the problem, so we had to press on. About the time we got to Charleston the wind had finally begun to cooperate, but then we also ran over something in the water. Stbd side started shaking violently. Shut it down. Got to West Palm at midnight, and called for a tow again. This time it was free. The tow operator said the inlet was too rough to tow me in without running the risk of pulling the cleats out of my deck, so I sailed it in the inlet so he could come alongside once we were in the turning basin, and he skillfully put me right on the dock.

Why would I want to be without it?
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Old 11-08-2018, 13:46   #128
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

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Originally Posted by Tornadosailing View Post
I haven't read all of this either, but I have Tow Boat US coverage, and will continue to buy it.

Bought my boat in Maryland last October, and sailed it to Florida a few days later. Along about Cape Fear a noise started up in the Port saildrive. Shut that one down. We needed fuel anyway, so we decided to head in at SouthPort. New to me boat, in an unfamiliar inlet that can have strong current, and it was getting dark, on one engine that could easily just twist me in circles. No reason to risk going aground in my new boat, so I called for a tow. I had a limited plan with Tow Boat US. The tow in cost me $300, and I of course also upgraded to the unlimited plan for another $150.

It turned out there was no place to haul out and find the problem, so we had to press on. About the time we got to Charleston the wind had finally begun to cooperate, but then we also ran over something in the water. Stbd side started shaking violently. Shut it down. Got to West Palm at midnight, and called for a tow again. This time it was free. The tow operator said the inlet was too rough to tow me in without running the risk of pulling the cleats out of my deck, so I sailed it in the inlet so he could come alongside once we were in the turning basin, and he skillfully put me right on the dock.

Why would I want to be without it?
I guess you and I are milk toasts. I can't see abusing it but there is always the what if. It seems like a dollar well spent.
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Old 13-08-2018, 05:10   #129
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

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Originally Posted by Franziska View Post

Just to sad that people are not willing to help because of the craziness of sueing each other is around.

Seems a bit pervert that along some coasts there are scavengers around just waiting to take advantage of someone's misfortune. Sometimes they try even to push people away who offer free help instead.

.
It certainly would be sad IF someone refused to offer help they were capable of giving because they were afraid of being sued. But Iíve never seen that and in this thread there are countless examples of folks helping each other out to the best of their ability and not accepting payment but no firsthand accounts of people not offering help they were capable of giving.

However, there are lots of valid reasons why someone might not offer help such as knowing their own lack of ability might well make the situation worse, not having a capable crewman aboard to help, limitations of your own boat that youíre aware of but might not be apparent to others, and many more.

To what coasts do you refer when you mention scavengers or people pushing away free help so they can benefit from others misfortune? That sounds like a bad fairy tale to me. Iíve been on the water here in the US quite a lot for my whole life and Iíve never seen anything like this or even heard of a first hand account of it.

Iíve both helped other boaters in need and sailed right on by them. But the 2 times I didnít offer help were both motorboats that had gone up on ledges in the fog and though I knew right where they were and was nearby, I was singlehanding a sailboat that had at least twice the draft of the boats in trouble so figured the best thing I could do was stay out of the way and let the USCG or Towboat help them. Another time, in a harbor full of boats on a Sunday morning with lots of boaters around, I happened to notice a boat that was sinking on its mooring. It was probably more obvious to me because the boat was the same model as my own boat, and thatís the same reason why it was appropriate for me to go aboard, wade through the floating settee cushions and junk, and know right where to find all the underwater thru hulls and close them. I donít fault all the countless others who saw what I did but didnít recognize the problem and couldnít have helped anyway. The boat was very close to sinking and it would have been foolish for someone who didnít know where the thru hulls were to risk being trapped inside as they groped around trying to find the them. Another time, I heard a call from a 25í outboard motorboat that had run out of gas and realized I was near them so I offered them a tow back to the harbor where we both kept our boats, about 10 miles away. It was almost dusk and there was little wind or waves so they all came aboard my sailboat and I shared a bottle of wine and appetizers with them during our 2+ hours together and we had a good time. So, like many others, Iíve both helped out and chosen to not help, and despite how it may have appeared to casual onlookers, the determining factor in my decision process had nothing to do with the possibility of being sued or what I might gain from helping. I helped when I reasonably could and didnít when I didnít feel I safely could, and my experience here in the US is that 99% of boaters would behave similarly, depending on their own abilities and limitations.

So, do you know firsthand of boaters who didnít help out when they reasonably could have because they were afraid of being sued, and where exactly is this coast you mention where scavengers lurk and people literally push away free help so they can take advantage of others misfortune, or was your post mostly an attempt at virtue signaling by comparing yourself favorably to these bad people who unfortunately seem to exist in your mind?
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Old 13-08-2018, 06:40   #130
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

Regarding pushing away. Happened to us on the Dutch coast.
Don't get me wrong, the Dutch are usually amongst the kindest and most friendly people I've met.

Someone's dinghy went adrift. Nice Rib with nice outboard we picked it up and started towing it towards the owners waving on shore just seconds before a scavanger arrived.

They jelled vividly and tried to have us let go their bounty and threw a big wake around our little dinghy towing towards the beach. Eventually we made it to shore though where they even started arguing with the owners.

Not a good memory.
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Old 13-08-2018, 06:53   #131
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornadosailing View Post
I haven't read all of this either, but I have Tow Boat US coverage, and will continue to buy it.

Bought my boat in Maryland last October, and sailed it to Florida a few days later. Along about Cape Fear a noise started up in the Port saildrive. Shut that one down. We needed fuel anyway, so we decided to head in at SouthPort. New to me boat, in an unfamiliar inlet that can have strong current, and it was getting dark, on one engine that could easily just twist me in circles. No reason to risk going aground in my new boat, so I called for a tow. I had a limited plan with Tow Boat US. The tow in cost me $300, and I of course also upgraded to the unlimited plan for another $150.

It turned out there was no place to haul out and find the problem, so we had to press on. About the time we got to Charleston the wind had finally begun to cooperate, but then we also ran over something in the water. Stbd side started shaking violently. Shut it down. Got to West Palm at midnight, and called for a tow again. This time it was free. The tow operator said the inlet was too rough to tow me in without running the risk of pulling the cleats out of my deck, so I sailed it in the inlet so he could come alongside once we were in the turning basin, and he skillfully put me right on the dock.

Why would I want to be without it?

I can understand why you would want to have it. However, neither was an emergency, just a convenience.


In the first case, you could have pressed on or waited until morning. I've done both when inlets were breaking.


In the second case you could have self-towed with your dinghy. With a cat, strapping it inside the transom works well if you have a swim platform, depending on the available fittings. I've done this as well.



Example. When I took delivery of my cruising cat both engines died during the multi-day delivery trip. I sailed into the slip, with a back-up plan to warp in if the wind was not to my liking. I had towing insurance, but didn't see the need.



Point is, these were milquetoast, or at least convenience tows. Nearly all of the examples have been. And there is nothing wrong with that. Uneventful is good.



I've only had tow insurance for about 2 years out of >35 years of boating. that's something like 35 x $179 = $4280. For me, it would have been a poor deal. For others, a good deal. Like most insurance, it depends on whether you consider yourself and above average user in the long run. I tend to be very self-sufficient and enjoy practicing for contingencies. In part, this is because I like to cruise places Tow Boat US does not go; insurance wouldn't help.
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Old 13-08-2018, 07:06   #132
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

New direction for the thread. Show your boat towing someone who needed it.

Here's mine from Saturday.

I do not believe that Sea Tow has service in this particular reach of the Mississippi. He had tried to call several marinas on the phone and couldn't get anyone to help him. He thought his fuel pump had failed, but he wasn't sure.
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:24   #133
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

Good going Jammer, hope it inspires others who see your good deeds to brush up on the needed skills to help fellow boaters.

Used to live in Shakopee, but worked too much to go boating back then, heck never went fishing much either! I did get a few sno machine adventures in North of the Twins back then though, good times.

Note to towboatus members, as told to me by a franchise owner a day after my 'adventure'; "we are only required to respond to 95% of our calls, not every one". This after I ran into what could have been serious trouble had I not reverted to having call out a 47mlb last winter. I saw his vessel still in the water, in harbor, as I was passing in daylight, and mentally checked it off as my 'safety plan' should things get beyond safe. Guess he did not want to come out of his nice warm trailer office into the freezing weather. He was the milktoast that day!

It's the type of event best told in cockpits around sundowners, or dinner with fellow cruisers.
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:20   #134
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Re: Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

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I can understand why you would want to have it. However, neither was an emergency, just a convenience.


In the first case, you could have pressed on or waited until morning. I've done both when inlets were breaking.


In the second case you could have self-towed with your dinghy. With a cat, strapping it inside the transom works well if you have a swim platform, depending on the available fittings. I've done this as well.



Example. When I took delivery of my cruising cat both engines died during the multi-day delivery trip. I sailed into the slip, with a back-up plan to warp in if the wind was not to my liking. I had towing insurance, but didn't see the need.



Point is, these were milquetoast, or at least convenience tows. Nearly all of the examples have been. And there is nothing wrong with that. Uneventful is good.



I've only had tow insurance for about 2 years out of >35 years of boating. that's something like 35 x $179 = $4280. For me, it would have been a poor deal. For others, a good deal. Like most insurance, it depends on whether you consider yourself and above average user in the long run. I tend to be very self-sufficient and enjoy practicing for contingencies. In part, this is because I like to cruise places Tow Boat US does not go; insurance wouldn't help.
Neither tow was an emergency, but neither is a car broken down on the highway. If my car breaks down, I call a tow truck. If my boat breaks down, I call TowBoat. If I have an emergency in my car, I call 911. If I have an emergency on my boat, I call the Coasties. Why would I call TowBoat for an actual emergency?

I could have pressed on instead of going in at Cape Fear, but I was low on fuel, and the wind was light but forecast for 40+ the next two days. Going in when I went in was the right thing to do. Getting towed in was also the right thing due to strong currents and lots of shallow mud flats.

In the second case, I got to the inlet at midnight. 25kt wind blowing onshore, stacking the waves up in the inlet. My 48 foot cat came with a 7 foot dinghy with no motor, not exactly something I can use to get out of a sticky situation. It was not only more convenient, but magnitudes safer to call for a tow. Even though I ended up sailing through the inlet on the advice of the TowBoat operator, I did have him meet me at the outer mark so I could follow him in. The gulf stream runs pretty strong in the area, right up to shore. Then the inlet takes a left around Peanut Island with a strong current more often than not. There was no point in going into unfamiliar water/current under sail alone if I didn't have to.

How many boats over the years have been damaged or lost because the owner put his pride or desire to show off his amazing seamanship skills above the safety of the vessel and crew? Would I somehow have been a better sailor if I had knowingly entered into a potentially dangerous situation unnecessarily?

One more thing about my trip down the coast. After waiting out the weather in Cape Fear, we were ready to get on the move. A delivery crew was leaving in a Lagoon 440 at the same time. I asked the skipper if he would mind escorting us out, and if I could throw him a line if I got pushed onto the mud. Nope. I called the TowBoat operator and asked him to escort me through the narrowest part of the channel. I tossed him $100 bill even though I never tossed him a line. Money well spent.

Many times prudence is the better part of valor. While there was no emergency, calling for a tow in both situations was the prudent thing to do. Call it Milquetoast if you wish, but I would do it again the same way in an instant.
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