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Old 17-01-2017, 12:25   #1
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Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

There have been 2 threads on CF this year involving searches for abandoned sailboats.

In the past, it had been the practice only to abandon a ship that was sinking, and rescue was basically not possible unless very close to shore, and often, not even then.

Today, with solar power for "In Reach", it is possible that one could accurately track an abandoned vessel, and rescue it.

The question I'm turning over in my mind is, should we, in an emergency where we have to abandon the ship, still scuttle her, as was the "law of the sea"? The reason for the custom was to remove the hazard to navigation that the abandoned vessel becomes.

There are some pretty big boats out cruising now, not the 30 footers of yore. How'd you like to run up on the deserted Gunboat, or even a 50 ft. monohull?

How real a danger do you think it is, and what are your reasons for the opinion? Should we scuttle, or not scuttle?

Thanking you in advance for sharing your thinking.

Ann
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Old 17-01-2017, 12:29   #2
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

I think by default scuttle should be the SOP - unless there was some concrete method for tracking/salvage later on. If it is insured appropriately scuttle is the preferred insurer's outcome anyway.


Edit - should note that you can only really intentionally scuttle a monohull. The gunboat you mention wouldn't have sunk. Unless you carry some thermite/detcord and blow up your hull, the cat is going to float for a while.
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Old 17-01-2017, 12:39   #3
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
...
There are some pretty big boats out cruising now, not the 30 footers of yore. How'd you like to run up on the deserted Gunboat, or even a 50 ft. monohull?

How real a danger do you think it is, and what are your reasons for the opinion? Should we scuttle, or not scuttle?

Thanking you in advance for sharing your thinking.

Ann
Not really a danger, anyway compared to floating containers which are maybe 10^3 more common or unlit fishing boats (10^5 or something) And shouldn't we have watch allways. Besides some boats don't sink if scuttled.

BR Teddy
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Old 17-01-2017, 13:16   #4
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

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Not really a danger, anyway compared to floating containers which are maybe 10^3 more common or unlit fishing boats (10^5 or something) And shouldn't we have watch allways. Besides some boats don't sink if scuttled.



BR Teddy


How about not abandoning boats that are not sinking? :-)
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Old 17-01-2017, 13:30   #5
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Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

Depending on situation, if I ever have to jump ship and salvage is likely. I'll not scuttle mine, if I'm allowed that option, I'm under the impression it may not be your decision to make.
If the situation is that salvage is unlikely and I'm insured I'll scuttle.
Has anyone ever heard of an accident where one cruiser ran into another unoccupied boat?
I figure if I ever hit another boat, especially if its rig is still intact, then I deserve what happens for not keeping watch (my opinion).
I think it unlikely that a mono will float with it just barely above water so it would be hard to see and has been noted, supposedly you can't sink most cats.
Surely if you can track it, then a Notice to Mariners could be issued with exact coordinates to warn other of a hazard to navigation?
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Old 17-01-2017, 13:31   #6
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

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How about not abandoning boats that are not sinking? :-)
Concur with that I can.
CG might take another approach if wrong distress signal was used and there's also a possibility of medical emergency and evacuation..
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Old 17-01-2017, 13:57   #7
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

I would say no, for a few reasons. First, if the boat is floating you should stay with it, even if it's not habitable you should connect your liferaft to it. A floating boat is much easier to spot than a liferaft, and it will have more supplies that you might be able to recover. So if rescue is not imminent then a boat shouldn't be scuttled

It's a slightly different question once you are being rescued, because you no longer need the visual signal and the supplies, but I still say no, because of safety. Once the CG (or whoever) is on scene you don't have time to do anything that is not an absolute life saving necessity. Trying to go below in a deteriorating situation to open seacocks is a bad idea. Personally, if it doesn't further your rescue you shouldn't worry about it in a life or death situation.
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Old 17-01-2017, 13:58   #8
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

When the decision to scuttle is made, it seems there will be little time to actually do the job. For those with a handy hose to slice, this is no problem - just cut the hose and go. If for some reason the scuttle needs to abort, just close the through hull valve.

If I decided to scuttle Panope, I'm not sure that I could without preparation. The only non-metallic materials below water line are the depth transducer and the stuffing box hose.

The depth transducer is embedded in a 3 inch tall standpipe with 5200. It is under a cabinet so no room to swing a sledge hammer.

The stuffing box hose is down in a deep narrow keel. I can JUST reach it with my fingers without dissembling stuff. It would be a challenge to hack a hole in it while the boat lurches in a sea-way.

I guess I would have to have a "scuttle kit" at the ready. Maybe a cordless drill and a good sized hole saw to hole the hull (with a corresponding tapered plug in-case the helicopter buggers off).

Steve
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Old 17-01-2017, 14:26   #9
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

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When the decision to scuttle is made, it seems there will be little time to actually do the job. For those with a handy hose to slice, this is no problem - just cut the hose and go. If for some reason the scuttle needs to abort, just close the through hull valve.

If I decided to scuttle Panope, I'm not sure that I could without preparation. The only non-metallic materials below water line are the depth transducer and the stuffing box hose.

The depth transducer is embedded in a 3 inch tall standpipe with 5200. It is under a cabinet so no room to swing a sledge hammer.

The stuffing box hose is down in a deep narrow keel. I can JUST reach it with my fingers without dissembling stuff. It would be a challenge to hack a hole in it while the boat lurches in a sea-way.

I guess I would have to have a "scuttle kit" at the ready. Maybe a cordless drill and a good sized hole saw to hole the hull (with a corresponding tapered plug in-case the helicopter buggers off).

Steve
I think you would have to be mighty mad at Panope to scuttle her, ditto me with Idora. More likely to fight till she drops out from under me.
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Old 17-01-2017, 14:38   #10
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

You're probably right, Idora. Then again, I have yet not had the experience of being exhausted, sick, injured, or terrified at sea........

Steve
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Old 17-01-2017, 14:56   #11
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

If you scuttle it, I think you best not rely on insurance to replace it. With the cut hose and open seacock they may presume you sank it on purpose... which you did I guess!
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Old 17-01-2017, 15:00   #12
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pirate Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

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If you scuttle it, I think you best not rely on insurance to replace it. With the cut hose and open seacock they may presume you sank it on purpose... which you did I guess!
If you do scuttle don't brag about it.. who's gonna go out and check..
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Old 17-01-2017, 15:10   #13
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

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If you do scuttle don't brag about it.. who's gonna go out and check..
Good point.

I still say don't scuttle it.
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Old 17-01-2017, 15:15   #14
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

Recovering a large sailboat rather far from land with reasonably sophisticated marine facilities is a very very long shot. Towing in the ocean is usually not practical and in many cases not even possible.

How do you suggest getting a 40 or 50 sailboat a few hundred miles offshore to a snug harbor or marina or boat yard?

I suppose some large boat might be able to lift it onto their deck... if they have space and all the skilled manpower, equipment and cooperative sea and weather conditions.

There's your answer from my perspective.

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Old 17-01-2017, 15:21   #15
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Re: Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

Why scuttle....we all keep watches...maybe we can win the lotto?
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