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Old 07-03-2016, 17:51   #46
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I remember a few years back 2 guys and a woman stole a big sailboat from a marina.. got drunk celebrating and ran her aground a few miles down the coast..
Wonder if these were relatives..
Ha...We had the same thing happen here on the left coast. 3 hairballs stole a drop dead gorgeous yacht out of San Fran, totally loaded (the theives, not the boat). With zero sailing experience somehow made it out the gate and headed south. Got as far as Pacifica, 15 miles down the coast. They could see a fast food place from the water and decided to "pull in", like maybe they could take the vessel through the drive thru...yes, they beached it.
This was at night and of course made the 11:00pm. news at the same time the owner was watching. You can imagine to his horror seeing his beloved vessel on the beach.
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Old 07-03-2016, 18:39   #47
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Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Originally Posted by Ribbit View Post
If running was the least worst option, I wonder what the other options were?

I wouldn't be surprised if the boat is found, with no sign of the crew. Or they scuttle it.

Now that is a thoughtful question.

I wonder if salvage terms were negotiated before any work done?

$200,000 for couple of hours work might be regarded as reasonable by some but fairly outrageous by others.

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Old 07-03-2016, 19:23   #48
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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$200,000 for couple of hours work might be regarded as reasonable by some but fairly outrageous by others.
This number is now floating around as if we know for a fact what the costs were. We do not. Could me more, could be less - we simply don't know.

Since that number is based on a % of the value of the boat, which wouldn't have lasted forever on that reef, it might very well have been worth whatever the costs are. Maybe his insurance that might have covered (part of) the costs, assuming he has any.
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Old 07-03-2016, 19:38   #49
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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This number is now floating around as if we know for a fact what the costs were. We do not. Could me more, could be less - we simply don't know.



Since that number is based on a % of the value of the boat, which wouldn't have lasted forever on that reef, it might very well have been worth whatever the costs are. Maybe his insurance that might have covered (part of) the costs, assuming he has any.

Absolutely agree. Too many things we don't know about the situation to allow reasonable conjecture.

Captain gone tropo?
Stolen boat?
Duplicitous salvor?
Some absolute requirement to move the boat despite customs issues?
May have cleared with customs afterhours or unbeknown by us?
Maybe up on a slip and in contact with customs already etc

I could only make useless conjecture. Which is what we are all doing apparently.


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Old 08-03-2016, 05:43   #50
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

Devil's advocate:

If he was told 10-20% of the boat value and the salvage company has ties with the local authorities, he may be thinking it would be well worth it to get the boat impounded in a country with different authorities and then pay $10-20k for a lawyer to sort it out in a more neutral setting.

In reality, we don't know everything that went on, so there may be a very logical reason. It may be a poorly thought out reason but if I was looking at a $200k bill, I might get a little desperate. People make stupid mistakes when they are desperate
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:20   #51
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pirate Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

Was it a salvage.?? or merely an expensive tow..???
As said above.. the $200K is an estimate tossed in of the top of a members head and with no idea of the situation or negotiations..
Kinda like TowBoatUS demanding 20% of the value of a boat for a tow off a sandbar at Cape Lookout.
Till the folk who did the work comment on here or elsewhere.. the price.. and the reason for the runner are pure speculation.
Tune in next week.. same time.. same boat channel..
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:56   #52
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

I don't know the specifics of this case of course but wonder what was negotiated prior to any salvage work.

I guess if I were in the yacht I would want a firm idea of the costs. If too high then I would have the options to proceed, make other arrangements, strip the boat, just walk away or ...

If the salvors offered a fee which was unreasonably escalated after the fact and I thought there was collusion with authorities then I could see my options changing.

I know of corrupt countries In which this scenario could easily occur but have no idea of the situation in this case. Have to be serious to tangle with a country's customs authorities but can envisage it.

In fact, a lovely 38' yacht I previously owned was lost on a reef in Asia largely due to this sort of salvage claim issues.
Salvage tends to be a pretty hard ball game from the little I know.


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Old 08-03-2016, 07:24   #53
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

I know that sailors were generally known as a conservative lot (not politically but as it regards the boats) but what other human activity or industry still has antiquated 300-400 year old laws and legal concepts?

Traditional maritime salvage laws were implemented at a time when there were no meaningful communications with your head office, no GPSs, AISs, etc. And more importantly they mostly concerned COMMERCIAL vessels and cargoes. And at that time most vessels were paid for by their 1st, at most 2nd voyage (provided they did not flounder in the process) so that to lose such vessel to a salvage claim on say its 3rd, 4th or later voyage was just the cost of doing business for its owners.

Not so today when that vessel to its private liveaboard owner is often his only home and may be his only meaningful asset and to burden it with salvage claim, disproportionately to it's value to the owner, seems a bit both excessive and unfair. May be it's time to amend these laws, at least as far as private vessels who are also homes to its owners are concerned. That would not cover all kind of "for profit" ownership schemes such as pleasure and fishing charters, etc. And most likely not cover "yachts" like the one in OP of this thread unless the owner does not own any other properties to live in.
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Old 08-03-2016, 07:51   #54
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

I know nothing of this yacht but if the captain changed her name here is a little more info. She is a Southern Winds Farr 72 hull #9 built in 2001.

See page 5:
http://www.southernwindshipyard.com/...SWS_030911.pdf

Screen cap of second column page 5:
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByCruisers Sailing Forum1457448658.662076.jpg
Views:	190
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SC


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Old 08-03-2016, 09:18   #55
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
to burden it with salvage claim, disproportionately to it's value to the owner, seems a bit both excessive and unfair.
You. Don't. Know. What. He. Was. Charged.

-

I am assuming the people who agree with his running away generally agree that when a service costs money, anyone who doesn't agree with the costs or who can't afford it has a right to use the service without paying for it?
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:25   #56
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

Silly question, but when does a tow, become a salvage?
What is it the determines the difference?
There was a thread awhile ago where someone's boat slipped the anchor or mooring, was floating loose in the anchorage and a local salvor, salvaged it, impounded it at their dock.
Why was that a "salvage"?


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Old 08-03-2016, 10:30   #57
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
You. Don't. Know. What. He. Was. Charged.

-

I am assuming the people who agree with his running away generally agree that when a service costs money, anyone who doesn't agree with the costs or who can't afford it has a right to use the service without paying for it?

A bit of over-simplification there Lizzy.

We don't know if anyone is running away.
We are not privy to any negotiations or discussions.
We don't know who is control.
We don't know what the rationale for moving the yacht is.
We don't know anything really.
All we can do at this point is conjecture and use our imagination.

What are we going to feel when we learn that the salvor's brother abducted the yacht with owner cos he had an passionate attraction to the captain's wife at the post salvage dinner.

Ok, just imagination but life is like that isn't it. Observers from a distance know very little.

Quacking ducks may or may not be relevant.


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Old 08-03-2016, 11:50   #58
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Difference Between Towing and Salvage - Towing Services - BoatUS


"Historically and legally, salvage is any voluntary and successful rescue of a boat and/or its cargo from a peril at sea."


If you're out of gas, but the vessel is still crewed (not abandoned) and is in no danger, then all you need is a tow. If the same vessel is now slowly drifting within sight of Niagara Falls...it might need a salvage. Even if that only required the same tow rope.


But the captain still has the option of saying "No thanks, don't need it."
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:05   #59
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
You. Don't. Know. What. He. Was. Charged.

-

I am assuming the people who agree with his running away generally agree that when a service costs money, anyone who doesn't agree with the costs or who can't afford it has a right to use the service without paying for it?
You. Don't. Know. He. Was. Running. Away.

I was addressing the issue in more general terms i.e. how fair is it in such situations to charge exorbitant amounts? Yes, I understand the argument of "saving life, etc" but would that excuse law giving a passerby driver the right to charge a cardiac arrest patient $200,000 to bring him/her safely to a hospital? After all they're also saving lives and often at their own peril (running red lights, higher chance of accidents, etc). There has to be a reasonable balance somewhere. Yes we want to give mariners incentives to save lives and property but no we don't want other mariners to lose their boats/livelihoods in the process - kind of defeats the original intent of the salvage claims laws don't you think?
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:12   #60
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Salvaged yacht does a runner...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
a64-
Difference Between Towing and Salvage - Towing Services - BoatUS


"Historically and legally, salvage is any voluntary and successful rescue of a boat and/or its cargo from a peril at sea."


If you're out of gas, but the vessel is still crewed (not abandoned) and is in no danger, then all you need is a tow. If the same vessel is now slowly drifting within sight of Niagara Falls...it might need a salvage. Even if that only required the same tow rope.


But the captain still has the option of saying "No thanks, don't need it."

I thought too, salvage required imminent danger or peril etc. now if your on a reef on a lee shore with significant wave action, yes, that's imminent danger, peril etc.
But if the boats slips it mooring in a sheltered bay and is drifting?
I guess then it goes to court and the court decides, but until then your home is impounded?

I guess this is one reason to have insurance, so you have access to their lawyers, I hope.


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