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Old 13-03-2016, 12:01   #166
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sea View Post
It's not about love and compassion. It's about honor, gratitude, character, responsibility, and integrity.
Neah, it's about the $$$. Or so it is said so often.

It is interesting how we have been programmed to demand the above listed from one side but totally do not expect the same from the other. No, I do not support leaving without paying but nor do I support charging 10X for a service which is normally charged at 1X. And since an average salver when billing takes advantage of uneven playing field the absconder just leveled that field a little bit.

Bet you that if one side claims that the other is lacking these qualities the other side can probably say the same about it's accusers. It takes two to tango in this dance of recrimination.
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Old 13-03-2016, 14:26   #167
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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I want to know who he's insured with in that case... they're not usually that quick..
or wise!!!
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Old 13-03-2016, 15:00   #168
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

A boat sitting on her winged keel doesn't seem odd at all. Beneteau has, in their infinite wisdom, built a number of boats with a rudder deep enough to match the keel, despite the damage that may subject the rudder to. But winged keels make a good stable landing foot.

Arguing with competing fire companies while you house burned was quite normal and accepted in the 1700's, and that's what you did if you hadn't already bought fire insurance from a fire insurance company. The problem was, while you argued the neighbors' homes might also catch fire, and that's why municipal fire departments got started. And government "coast guard" rescue programs.

I still say the wreck caused his freezer to fail, and the strawberry ice cream was melting, so he made for the nearest port that could offer freezer repairs and dry ice. Strawberry ice cream is, after all, a priority. Or perhaps, he just had a hot date and needed to be there for that. My friend Polyanna agrees wholeheartedly.
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Old 13-03-2016, 15:00   #169
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Is the cost of repairing whatever damage the salvage boat suffered yet known - and is there evidence of that damage being sustained during that particular incident?
I ask because I don't remember ever seeing a salvage boat without significant unrepaired damage.

$11,000 doesn't sound much compared to previous estimates of the value of that yacht but for a rescue lasting (less than?) a day it seems like very good wages to me.

If your house is burning and the fire department demands $11,000 before they'll begin to put out the fire would that be reasonable?
If the fire department was a private business would that make it reasonable?

What if your neighbour takes advantage of your desperation and demands, say, $1000 to borrow his hose pipe?
Would you feel that was perfectly reasonable because your house is worth $5million and it's insured anyway?
Would you later meekly pay up, turn the other cheek and thank him or would you be incandescent with rage and tell him to sue you?

Let's say you were in Monte's place but had succeeded in pulling that large, expensive boat to safety - would you demand a large payout?

If that large expensive boat were yours would you insist that a fellow sailor accept such a sum despite his protestations or would you instead insist on buying him dinner?

Despite how it must seem I'm genuinely not supporting either side, just wondering out loud about the rights or wrongs of this thing while I put on the asbestos suit
btw you can call it negotiating rather than demanding if you like but a desperate person is in a poor position to negotiate.
I think this analogy is well put!

Reminds me of the marina where they have 200+ mooring balls and the salvor/pirate lives 50 yards downwind on his boat with his "rescue" boat aside. plenty of suspicious broken lines.
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Old 13-03-2016, 16:37   #170
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Is the cost of repairing whatever damage the salvage boat suffered yet known - and is there evidence of that damage being sustained during that particular incident?

Salvage is an inherently risky business and the salvors know that going in.

Generally, damage to the salvor's boat is irrelevant to any salvage claim or recovery agreement. It is a straight business risk to the salvor for which they should be insured.
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Old 13-03-2016, 20:41   #171
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Salvage is an inherently risky business and the salvors know that going in.

Generally, damage to the salvor's boat is irrelevant to any salvage claim or recovery agreement. It is a straight business risk to the salvor for which they should be insured.
My suspicion was that some salvors might use (pre-existing) damage to their vessel to try to influence the opinion of an arbitrator in their favour.

Arbitrators, like the rest of us, cannot escape being influenced by personal opinion - one of the reasons appeals to higher courts exist surely?
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Old 14-03-2016, 09:08   #172
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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Salvage is an inherently risky business and the salvors know that going in.

Generally, damage to the salvor's boat is irrelevant to any salvage claim or recovery agreement. It is a straight business risk to the salvor for which they should be insured.
Have to disagree with you on this one.

Damage to the salvager's boat implies a more risky or dangerous salvage job, so leaving the boat rough around the edges and claiming it got banged up could easily be a tactic. Salvage payouts often take risk into account. Salvagers know this as evidenced by your earlier comment that the salvager asked the chopper to take photos. They know exactly what they are doing and are just as busy establishing their legal case as they are actually salvaging.

I'm not suggesting what the boat owner did was right but it makes me really skeptical when there is evidence, this may be akin to the old days when people would set out lights to trick ships into running aground so they could salvage the wreck.

In a small community, what is the salvagers relationship with the authorities?
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Old 14-03-2016, 09:52   #173
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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in my search for a boat in 2000 in flew into Antigua to look at a Tri.. it was on a mooring and the guy who was doing the Guardianage wanted $100 to dinghy me out to it to view..
A smarter businessman would have charged you $30 for the dinghy ride out. Then $230 for the ride back. And if you agreed to that, after getting under way, an extra $100 if he wanted you to use your engine instead of making your row. And so on until you finally put your foot down at which point he would say, "but since you are a nice guy paying all cash, I will give you a 10% good guy discount."
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Old 14-03-2016, 10:25   #174
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pirate Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

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A smarter businessman would have charged you $30 for the dinghy ride out. Then $230 for the ride back. And if you agreed to that, after getting under way, an extra $100 if he wanted you to use your engine instead of making your row. And so on until you finally put your foot down at which point he would say, "but since you are a nice guy paying all cash, I will give you a 10% good guy discount."
Actually I told him to sit on his dinghy and swivel.. then contacted the owner of the boat and told him what the scam was.. he (the American bum) lost the Guardianage job.. unlike some folks I'm not prepared to accept people taking the piss.
I never went back and the owner lost yet another chance to sell his boat.
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Old 14-03-2016, 10:56   #175
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

"Something else.. in my search for a boat in 2000 in flew into Antigua to look at a Tri.. it was on a mooring and the guy who was doing the Guardianage wanted $100 to dinghy me out to it to view.. its not just companies that do this.. liveaboards try it on as well."

Gouging people can be a high-risk business.

Taking a man you don't know for a ride while taking him for a ride can get you seriously accidented
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Old 23-03-2016, 22:40   #176
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

Moral of the story, if you run up on a reef...call the insurance company and get off. Charter home and don't look back. Once you exhaust civilian ( cruiser ) assistance, the law punishes you for your screw up. Or...you could pay attention to local politics and try to get a good deal...just reading between the lines from boaty and Monte. Not sure which is best.
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Old 09-06-2016, 17:56   #177
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

Sailing yacht "Ely Blue" is currently in HORTA Azores.

https://www.vesselfinder.com/?mmsi=247209930

Vessel details for: ELY BLUE (Sailing Vessel) - MMSI 247209930, Call Sign Registered in Italy | AIS Marine Traffic
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:50   #178
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Re: Salvaged yacht does a runner...

Maybe someone at Horta has the courage to ask the captain politely if this dispute has already been settled, and the global sailing community need not worry about this any more.
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