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Old 11-08-2015, 16:27   #121
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

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Used to teach sailing for Newport Beach Parks and Rec.at 15th St. I had about 15 Sabots,some with Lee boards, some with dagger boards.Maybe a third of the boats had two students in them. We had a written exam but I told the students I didn't care of they passed it or not. I'd pass them if they could rig a boat on the beach, sail out into the bay, swamp the boat, then sail it back to the dock. If they could do that, I figured they'd be okay in a Sabot in the ocean.
I think that area was the birthplace of the Naples Sabot. The centerboard ones were more like El Toros if I remember right. I had the leeboard kind and rigged my best one with too leeboards so it would perform the same on either tack.

Fun little boats.
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Old 11-08-2015, 17:10   #122
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

Great thread. Really love it.

Particularly since whenever the value of dinghy sailing or racing come up on other threads a bunch of "cruisers" with no dinghy sailing or racing experience jump up and extol how there is sooooo much more to know than just boat handling to be a competent cruiser.

Really? Racing or dinghy sailing experience is of little value. Okay. Expert cruisers. Enjoy cruising.

Have sailed a P.O.S. 35,000 lbs Gulfstar 50 "cruiser" through a crowded harbor and into the dock on a windy day before. Not by choice, but fortunately without a scratch.

Thank god I squandered all those years of my youth racing 470's and Solings. Wouldn't trade that experience for any knowledge of how to use a GPS or push an EPIRB button.
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Old 11-08-2015, 19:46   #123
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

I was gonna put the beating a dead horse icon up but can't get the little thingies to appear. It's been fun and interesting. Makes me feel good to know that I'm not the only sailing anachronism out here on the briny. Fair Winds to all. Unsubscribe.
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Old 11-08-2015, 21:05   #124
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

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Must be the same place. It was called Fiddler's Cove just the Imperial Beach side of the AmphibBase.

Lido 14s, Capri 14s, Rebel 16s, Wood Knockabouts at a about 26 feet, Catalina 22s, Catalina 27s and the old Navy wooden Luders Yawls. I was involved there with getting training and instructing from 75 to 81. Some great sailing. They had a Soling too which was a fun ride.

My friend Tom and I were just talking about the place the other day. He had a big Cross Trimaran in that area and did some mooring work for Fiddler's Cove.
Same spot yes. You were there before me. The Rebels were the mainstay of the training in the mid-80's. The Luders Yawls were gone. I always thought the 22's were Catalinas (looking back on it) but was told by a fellow who was also there at the time that both the 28's and the 22's were Cals. Now you have me wondering. Presently they have Capris and Catalinas (well, in 2013 they did when we were last visiting there) there.

My husband and I were just joking about how we can't even recall whether the 22's had engines because we don't remember ever using them The Catalinas they have now aren't a good replacement for the Cal 28's they had then because at that time they had a night sailing class and some additional courses in the Cal 28's (probably things that had been done on the Luders previously) that they seem to have dropped now.

BTW, two of those Luders were restored by a guy who has them in San Diego still. And--the Luders didn't have engines did they? They're what 42ft or so with no engine?
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Old 11-08-2015, 21:37   #125
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

While I began sailing in smaller dingys, I picked up the boat handling aspects pretty quickly as I was working aboard commercial power vessels, towboats, fish boats, etc., when I moved over about 27 feet, I took the advice of an old sailor who suggested I learn how to first single hand any vessel I had and second, to anchor and leave a harbor under sail with confidence regardless of how crowded it was. He told me to come into my chosen spot with the engine idling and only use it if I ran into trouble. Turned out to be very sound advice which I,followed every time I went out.
Sure enough, one blustery day, I was coming into the slot in Secret Cove on the BC coast and lost my engine. Under full main, I flew down the ancHorage did a 180 into the wind, headed up onto the foredeck and dropped the hook as my Ingrid38 came to a stop and let out about 6/1 scope until the anchor grabbed then faught down the main. The boat stayed solid as a rock all evening but I stayed up watching for sliding against the shore and trees for any anchor slippage much of the night.
Whoever suggested practicing anchoring and picking up a mooring hit the nail on the head. Had I not practiced and knew my boat, there was no way I could have attempted or accomplished it.
My advice is practice, practice practice... Phil
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Old 12-08-2015, 11:25   #126
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

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Same spot yes. You were there before me. The Rebels were the mainstay of the training in the mid-80's. The Luders Yawls were gone. I always thought the 22's were Catalinas (looking back on it) but was told by a fellow who was also there at the time that both the 28's and the 22's were Cals. Now you have me wondering. Presently they have Capris and Catalinas (well, in 2013 they did when we were last visiting there) there.

I just dug out my old qualification card and it says: Catalina 22, Catalina 27 and the yawls were 44. My friend Charlie Baird and I checked out a Catalina 22 and took it out past Pt. Loma. It had an engine I'm pretty certain. I got night qualified in a Catalina 27 on Feb 20 '81. Rebels were 16s. My daughter and I sailed one on August 9 '81 and that was my last sail with the club. I was instructing on the 22s and 27s into 1980 and '81.

My husband and I were just joking about how we can't even recall whether the 22's had engines because we don't remember ever using them The Catalinas they have now aren't a good replacement for the Cal 28's they had then because at that time they had a night sailing class and some additional courses in the Cal 28's (probably things that had been done on the Luders previously) that they seem to have dropped now.

My first sail on the Luders yawls with the "old salts" was out to Point Loma and back. I was in charge of the hand bilge pump because I was the newbie. It pretty much required constant attention with those old wood hulls. One sail took us around the Coronado Islands and we did night navigation on that trip as well.

BTW, two of those Luders were restored by a guy who has them in San Diego still. And--the Luders didn't have engines did they? They're what 42ft or so with no engine?
Thanks for the memories!
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Old 12-08-2015, 11:42   #127
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

The old wood Naval Academy 44 Luders yawls that the San Diego Naval Sailing Club had when I was active there did not have engines. "Gasp!"

We learned to sail, dock, anchor and do all maneuvers without an engine. I really do think a lot of folks miss out on good training by being so dependent on their engines.

Jreiter, sorry to see you leave. If I hadn't already started down the Ship's Office path I really wanted to be a QM.
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Old 12-08-2015, 12:10   #128
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

A Royal Navy training film, in 3 parts, filmed in Malta 1955. Star feature is a Whaler, with a curious loose-footed standing lug with a dipping yard, jib, and sprit mizzen. Entertaining and instructive!

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Old 12-08-2015, 12:44   #129
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

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Unless you have no choice... it seems like a not very clever bit of showing off. I've seen many small boats Usually racers like etchells or solings do this.... but they don't have a motor and so no option.
I learned to sail in Boston Harbor on a Soling. Final exam for the basic course was sailing off the mooring and going where the instructor directed amongst the moored boats. At the end picking up the mooring under sail.

The person being tested is the one at the helm. He/she gives sail trim commands based of the instructor's ordered direction as well as driving.

Those Solings are responsive!
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Old 12-08-2015, 16:14   #130
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

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A Royal Navy training film, in 3 parts, filmed in Malta 1955. Star feature is a Whaler, with a curious loose-footed standing lug with a dipping yard, jib, and sprit mizzen. Entertaining and instructive!

Thanks Micah. Not so much different than a basic sailing course just a lot more crew and a larger boat with more complicated rigging.
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Old 12-08-2015, 16:35   #131
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

Well, it's something different. Even the mighty Royal Navy thought it was a good idea to start the sailors off with sailing something small...cheaper when someting goes wrong.

The bucket on a rope idea for slowing down is good. I might rig a honking great drogue as a last resort option in case I lose control.
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Old 12-08-2015, 16:52   #132
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

California Maritime Academy cadets practice maneuvering and sail adjusting in 20-foot sloops as well motoring in "smaller" vessels:



Seen the motor vessels practicing docking.

They take summer-time, overseas trips in their training ship:

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Old 12-08-2015, 17:21   #133
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

The old salt in me is saying "anyone who cant do it, should learn it".

head out into a bay and toss over a Fender with a brick attached.
Lose the headsail then practice practice practice. Else someone is going to look pretty silly the day the engine wont fire up.
Its not much different to an MOB drill and in reality, everyone should be able to pick up an MOB- even in a crowded anchorage!

PS, there are three reason for losing the headsail
1. Vision (thats an obvious one)
2. Work space on the foredeck and no backwinding sail blowing crew overboard.
3. To prevent the bow being "blown off".
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Old 12-08-2015, 17:36   #134
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

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The old wood Naval Academy 44 Luders yawls that the San Diego Naval Sailing Club had when I was active there did not have engines. "Gasp!"

We learned to sail, dock, anchor and do all maneuvers without an engine. I really do think a lot of folks miss out on good training by being so dependent on their engines.

Jreiter, sorry to see you leave. If I hadn't already started down the Ship's Office path I really wanted to be a QM.
We really digress.

So they were 44 feet -- wow, they're slick for that size. The two still in San Diego are Flirt and Frolic owned by Jack...(can't recall his last name) at SWYC. Here's info about the Naval Academy yawls link.
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Old 12-08-2015, 18:57   #135
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

Relatively easy with a smaller, lighter boat & fin keel & rudder. We are 36 tons, 58 feet, full keel, ketch. Turning radius is about 120 feet. We can drop everything and coast for 500 yards. I prefer not sailing in an anchorage or any other tight spot. We need prop-wash and prop walk to maneuver. Careful planning of the wind is also critical.
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