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Old 10-08-2015, 09:05   #76
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

I enjoy the challenge of sailing which includes precise boat handling under sail. I spend a lot of time practicing sailing into and out of my slip, in and out of the Marina fairway, onto and off of moorings and anchoring. Yes I find this fun. I also enjoy jockeying for position on a crowded starting line by luffing to hold ground, spinning to kill speed and time and ducking a stern to yield right of way. All of this is great fun and a big part of my enjoyment of sailing.

I also enjoy watching other sailors doing these same things. Of course there is a time and place for everything and depending on the conditions perhaps a crowded anchorage isn't the place for it but a lot of it depends on the skill of the skipper and crew.

When I see another sailor docking under sail or picking up a mooring my first thought is "it's nice to see a skilled sailor in action" not "what a jerk!"

All captains become jerks when it all goes wrong but of course it can all go wrong under motor power also. All skippers need to be prudent and keep their maneuvers within their skill set whether under sail or power.








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Old 10-08-2015, 09:23   #77
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

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Practicing when there are consequences provides a level of preparation that cannot come without having those consequences in place. To be specific: to practice single-handing or to practice mooring under sail with no other boats around is not going to provide the same preparation for motor failure as doing so in a crowded mooring field. There are no close calls to sweat over and get the adrenaline running and it is those close calls that make you dwell over the experience and create the indelible memories that serve when things actually go wrong. Honing these skills is the essence of seamanship.
Really... like the same screw up happens twice and having survived it the first time with adrenalin running high... you are calm and collected the next time when the exact same thing goes wrong.

What planet are you on?
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:30   #78
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

This thread is similar to many others I have seen here over the years.

Those with the skills and experience to accomplish a difficult or potentially dangerous task (financing a large boat, single handing overnight, sailing onto a mooring) find it reasonable and quite safe. They do it and find nothing odd or dangerous about doing it.

Those who sit by the wayside and have no skill or experience worry, fret, criticize, and make up reasons to explain their lack of skill or understanding.

The following comment is a perfect example:
"I don't know anyone who would approve of bikers weaving through rush hour traffic where some motorists might swerve, react and cause an accident when the biker long gone."

The California Highway Patrol and California Law approves exactly the procedure that is being criticized. I commuted 37-miles (each way) on LA freeways for many years on a lane splitting motorcycle and never once had an accident due to lane splitting. I had dozens of motorcyclist friends who also lane split, we frequently followed a CHP officer leading the parade.

No one knew of any car or motorcycle injured or damaged lane splitting.

Yet - those who do not ride motorcycles are typically furious that we who have the skill and knowledge should engage in the behavior they do not understand.

Just my Rant!
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:38   #79
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

"Really... like the same screw up happens twice and having survived it the first time with adrenalin running high... you are calm and collected the next time when the exact same thing goes wrong."

That is exactly how one learns difficult and dangerous tasks.

I have engaged in many stressful recreational activities:

- rock and ice climbing
- motorcycle racing
- sportscar racing
- mountain bike riding on cliffsides and rock gardens
- windsurfing in 15' waves and 30-knot winds

The only way to learn those really scary things is to start small, crash&fail, try again, crash&fail, try again, gain some confidence, learn to stay calm and thoughtful, crash&fail, control your fear, try a bigger wave or bigger rock, and so forth.

If you don't try and fail you will never accomplish great things, and few minor things. If you sit on the sideline telling yourself and everyone else why something should not be done then not much of importance gets done.

Sorry - we have very different views about life and learning.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:40   #80
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

Sandero, you have some serious issues. I hereby nominate you for the position of KING NEPTUNE! PLEASE WRITE A LIST OF THE WAY YOU WANT EVERYONE TO ACT SO AS TO CONFORM TO YOUR IDEAS. I'm worried about your health due to an excess of bile.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:42   #81
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

I appreciate the positive attitude of SailSC. I, too, love to see others sailing gracefully into their slips.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:49   #82
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

hahahahaha... I have been sailing for 30 years and maybe 40,000 miles including single hand offshore passages of a week or two. I have adequate boat handling skills with my boat which I have had for the entire 30 yrs.

The thrust of my comments was about consideration of others... such as noise and of course bikers weaving through highway traffic ignoring lanes and not signalling. In NYS this is also unlawful.

I don't have issues as you see it and I don't want to tell people how to conduct their lives... but I do expect others to show consideration for people besides themselves. I find speeding noisy boats kicking up big wakes in quiet anchorages "inappropriate" and most harbors have low speed no wake zones for just this reason.

Of course it's a good thing to have more control of your boat than less. This is not the issue.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:51   #83
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

I don't really understand why the word "skill" keeps getting throw around, the thread isn't about skill. One's belief on whether it is responsible to sail in/out of a CROWDED mooring field isn't about skill!
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:08   #84
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

Sailorboy1... I agree with you, but the subtext is that when you have sufficient boat handling skills you can do what would be imprudent for those who have lesser skills. And so this is a sort "subtle" put down for those who have chosen to cautiously motor through anchorages.. where they only have to control their engine and the helm and not deal with wind direction, leeway, tacking, sheets and so forth. Ya know Rod Stephens could do it and so why can't you????????????
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:14   #85
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

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this is a sort "subtle" put down for those who have chosen to cautiously motor through anchorages.
No-one here has "put you down" nor "put down" anyone who chooses to motor. What we find sad is your insistence that others are acting irresponsibly and should not do something that intereres with you in no significant way and is a trivial risk.

You are the one putting down others . . . you do remember making the following comment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
Frankly your attitude is arrogant and self serving and very disappointing. You seem to think about your own selfish needs in this thread.
Some of us also think that both the individuals and the community would be better and safer if they practiced and lauded sailing skill more.
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:36   #86
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

I'm surprised at the number of comments to this thread. Here's my two cents worth. When its done right, It always makes me smile. When it's done wrong, I always shake my head and laugh.
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:47   #87
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

Evans... this is not about practicing your sailing skills. Everyone should be constantly honing theirs. This is simply about the fact that it is not prudent to practice or hone your sailing skills in crowded anchorages.

You don't learn to drive in Manhattan and you need the right environment to learn and advance your skills. One commenter said he needed his adrenalin pumping to presumably hone his skills. Frankly that troubles me too.

Please Evans.. hone your skills and have fun tanking and gybing and backing your main and so on... But please don't advocate that sailors do this for fun in crowded anchorages. Sailing is about threading needles through obstacle courses of mmored boats, swimmers, and kyackers etc.

Your advocacy of this imprudent practice is wrong headed... not your advocacy of honing one's skills... that is fine. You happen to be wrong on this (IMO) and too proud to admit it... or so it seems.

Here's a shovel... dig deeper. ;-)

Some of us also think that both the individuals and the community would be better and safer if boaters where more prudent and considerate of others on the water.

I was not putting you down... I was calling you out for justifying your imprudent behavior claiming it was about FUN and honing your skills and something everyone in the community should be doing.
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:13   #88
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

one more, then I'm done(got grass to cut). Has anyone heading for a crowded mooring field, with a dead engine, flukey wind, and short crew ever tried to raise someone on the radio for assistance.
Despite all the heated replies to this thread, I'm sure (well, pretty sure) that assistance would be there. Maybe too much assistance(but that's a topic for another thread).
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:17   #89
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

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Some of us also think that both the individuals and the community would be better and safer if they practiced and lauded sailing skill more.
I don't believe anyone is saying otherwise, just that you shouldn't practice in a crowed mooring field.
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:20   #90
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Re: Sailing in and out of a crowded mooring field

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more prudent and considerate of others on the water.
In what way exactly is sailing thru an anchorage inconsiderate or imprudent?

I have provided evidence that the risk is trivial, and you have provided none that it is in any way significant.

And I just simply can't see how it is in any way inconsiderate to others. It is pretty, quiet, and produces minimal wake (no more than a motor approach).
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