sailing downwind without a kite or pole?

[Exonerated]

A whisker pole can be great help sailing downwind without a spinnaker, for getting a genoa projected out further.

My question: Does anyone have tips for a makeshift pole, or advice for sailing downwind without one?

I'm chartering a boat in a few weeks, and I don't believe it will come with a spinnaker or pole.

My usual approach in these situations is just to end up pointing fairly high. Anyone have advice for pointing lower, while still having power?

[RaymondR]

If you're not using the main hanging a block from the end of a preventered out boom with the sheet running through it helps otherwise it's zigzag and tack.

[Exonerated]

I had in mind using the main.

Genoa-only is certainly an option downwind, but probably setting up the preventer/block on the boom is more trouble than it's worth.

Thanks.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Exonerated

I had in mind using the main.

Genoa-only is certainly an option downwind, but probably setting up the preventer/block on the boom is more trouble than it's worth.

Thanks.

Certainly use the main.

For lighter air situations a length of bamboo would do fine as a whisker pole. Length equal to the distance from the mast to the bow of the boat, or a foot longer. Jury rig a pad and lashing to hold it on the mast and be careful not to scratch the mast. A short lashing on the end around the jib sheet, and Bob's your uncle.

Or you could prop it against the toe rail or a stanchion base and lash in place, might be easier than trying to get it to stay in one spot on the mast. Take a hand saw to shape the ends or shorten it if needed.

Or, jibe downwind and drink a beer.

My first Caribbean charter I took yarn and needle to make tell tails. A bit easier.

[Exonerated]

> For lighter air situations

Yes, it's really lighter-air situations I'm most worried about. In heavier air, the wind is enough to keep the foresail comfortably out from the boat (still not optimal, but less of an issue).

> a length of bamboo

Just a length of bamboo you find on the islands somewhere? Interesting. This sounds like exactly the advice I was looking for. Have you done this, or just an idea?

> I took yarn and needle to make tell tails.

What, no telltales?!

Could be for the best. I race, and my crew doesn't. Might be best for everyone if I'm not able to try for perfect sail trim.

My first Carribean charter as well.

[lateral]

I pole out the #1 with the spinnaker pole.
Worked so far but have not used in real squally conditions.
I have bought another spin pole and thinking about the old #1 on the other side.
Could be exciting!
Surprising how far forward AWA can be before leech collapse.
Dunno about the drop tho, could furl both and wait for less wind to drop the second out foil groove. Could be messy ...haha!

Max wind so far 25knts.
Pic is with #2 on lite day.
Last trip out did 43 Nm in 5hrs with #2 & main, not too shabby.
AWA 110°- 120°. 20+ Knts tho.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Exonerated

I had in mind using the main.

Genoa-only is certainly an option downwind, but probably setting up the preventer/block on the boom is more trouble than it's worth.

Thanks.

Couple of minutes work, thread the sheet through the block, tie the block to the end of the boom, re thread the sheet block, let the boom out and unfurl the sail. I used to do it fairly often before I fitted whisker poles.

[Paul L]

Broad reach and jibe as needed. It will probably be faster and if there are seas more comfortable.

[Jim Cate]

for DDW +/- maybe ten degrees, we can usually keep the genoa full, wing and wing, without a pole. Takes careful steering, but it works ok.

Jim

PS If you go the bamboo makeshift pole, be careful... consider the pole breaking and the sharp end going through the collapsing genoa. Charter company may not like that very much!

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

for DDW +/- maybe ten degrees, we can usually keep the genoa full, wing and wing, without a pole. Takes careful steering, but it works ok.

Jim

PS If you go the bamboo makeshift pole, be careful... consider the pole breaking and the sharp end going through the collapsing genoa. Charter company may not like that very much!

Breaking the pole is a possibility. Especially if there are any waves. The sail will compress the pole as it empties and fills again quite violently.

I have twice snapped a windsurf mast doing this. In the end I gave up and bought a proper spinnaker/whisker pole. Obviously he OP can't do that with a charter though.

[Pete17C]

I have used the boat hook for this in the past. Totally makeshift in really light winds so loads were minimal. Just stuck the hook end of the pole in the clew grommet and lashed the other end to the mast. YMMV.

[BlackHeron]

A lighter genoa worked wonders for us. We never use our pole with the 1.5oz colorful nylon 155% drifter and lightweight sheets running DDW in light air. It even runs well 5 degrees into the lee without the main up. This produces plenty of power to move the boat along respectably DDW in light winds and is at least an order of magnitude easier to handle than freely-flown downwind sail when launching or dousing -no harder than any other Jib.

Without the option of running a large light wind downwind sail on the forestay of a charter boat at least try and see if you can find some really lightweight lines somewhere on the boat to use for sheets, and maybe some shackles to move the sheets back off behind the genoa track and nearly as far as an asymmetric spinnaker would be sheeted. In light air the rearmost stanchion base might be a good location to help keep the genoa filled in light air if the sheet isn't too heavy to make the sail want to collapse without a pole. A snapshackle works great here.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Exonerated

> For lighter air situations

> a length of bamboo

Just a length of bamboo you find on the islands somewhere? Interesting. This sounds like exactly the advice I was looking for. Have you done this, or just an idea?

I've seen it done, as well as lengths of other scrap wood. We've always had the spinnaker pole.

[thomm225]

This is wing and wing sailing downwind for the approx 18-20 mile crossing of the lower Chesapeake Bay without a pole. Wind is about 12-14 knots and just starting to come up. It's about 1230. I made the crossing in three hours on a Bristol 27 due to wind and tide

The autopilot is running the show. The main got reefed as the wind increased and I got further offshore.

What actually happened was after a came off anchor and cleared the cement ships I set the autopilot to near SSW and went forward to raise the main. It swung out to starboard and the jib stayed to port so I left it like that with just a few minor adjustments for the first couple hours

Sometimes I do use an adjustable forespar for the jib which is about a 120%. It was on the boat when I bought it. 2 of them actually.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/fores...FeofrQYdnZAKlg

[meirriba]

1. Wing and wing (i.e jib to one side main to the other). Preventer on boom.
2. Barber hauler on jib/genoa sheet (i.e. a line riding on the sheet and tensioned across the deck to the lee toerail/cleat or whatever available)