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26-01-2010, 05:25
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#46
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,564
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The dutchman system is a mainsail flaking system. When it works right it allows you to drop the main flaked neatly, quite quickly.
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
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26-01-2010, 06:45
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pensacola FL
Boat: Fuji 32 Ketch
Posts: 118
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Is it like having lazy jacks?
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26-01-2010, 07:09
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#48
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,564
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Lazy jacks contain the sail when it comes down. The dutchman lines are threaded through the sail. They are both there for managing a main sail that has been doused.
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
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26-01-2010, 10:55
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Lazy jacks contain the sail when it comes down. The dutchman lines are threaded through the sail. They are both there for managing a main sail that has been doused.
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Here's a link............
Doyle Sailmakers: Dutchman
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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26-01-2010, 11:48
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#50
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,564
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Didn't I put a link in the #46?
And to MVB...not some silly sail maker that ripped off the manufacturer's site...
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
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26-01-2010, 16:38
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River & Marshal Catboat
Posts: 639
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The dutchman system is a main sail control unit that usually has monofilament lines that run vertical in the main sail through eyes so that when sail is dropped it flakes itself on boom. There are other mainsail control systems including variations of lazy-jack lines which are less complicated and cheaper. A full batton sail and one of these control systems and good jiffy reefing makes main sail handeling a fairly safe and easy afair. Adding a non overlaping 95% roller jib with vertical battons increases the ease of handeling. I routeenly single handed a J/44 with a big main sail useing this set up and I am over 70yrs old. With the proper rigging and gear I realy don't see a good technical reason not to set the main and sail with a balanced rig. Yes there is personal preference- but for those newbees reading this the correct sail set is the balanced rig- and if you have a good boat and can trim it right it will almost sail itself to weather.
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26-01-2010, 18:24
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Didn't I put a link in the #46?
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Yep! And I missed it.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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26-01-2010, 21:13
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Great Neck, N.Y.
Boat: Lancer 30, Little Jumps
Posts: 822
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I love sailing with my fractional rig (large mainsail with dutchman system, picture old venetian blinds) as intended,
balanced with both main and jib. I sometimes sail with main alone, drives boat just fine...can't point as high.
Have been known to sail with jib only, occasionally partially
furled in wind conditions from light to howling.
Coming clean was really tough, but needed to get it out in the open.
Do I need to be rehabilitated? Is there a Betty Ford Clinic for
jib sailors?
__________________
hugosalt
s/v Little Jumps
Lancer 30
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26-01-2010, 21:40
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 461
Posts: 350
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Hugosalt, you might as well reserve a spot for me at rehab as well I fly a headsail (my chute) w/o the main fairly regularly - much easier to keep flying w/o having to constantly trim - even use a sock(!) for takedown - I guess I am also qualified for membership in the lazy sailors club
What a passionate group we have, don't we?
Sailndive
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26-01-2010, 23:34
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Great Neck, N.Y.
Boat: Lancer 30, Little Jumps
Posts: 822
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Sailndive, your spot is reserved...trying to get upgraded to a room with an ocean view...have to go now...the self help group
is meeting.
__________________
hugosalt
s/v Little Jumps
Lancer 30
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27-01-2010, 06:31
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but if one has a 150% genoa and they run the sheet as far aft as possible this helps to balance out the boat.
e.g. Mine being an old racer I have T-tracks all over the boat. One runs along the bulwalk from just forward the mast to the last few inches of the deck. I've put a track block all the way aft and run the sheet thru and back to the winch. So in effect is pulls the aft end to lee helping with weather helm. Although I'm not able to pull in the genoa very tight so pointing up is minimal.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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27-01-2010, 10:02
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pensacola FL
Boat: Fuji 32 Ketch
Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but if one has a 150% genoa and they run the sheet as far aft as possible this helps to balance out the boat.
e.g. Mine being an old racer I have T-tracks all over the boat. One runs along the bulwalk from just forward the mast to the last few inches of the deck. I've put a track block all the way aft and run the sheet thru and back to the winch. So in effect is pulls the aft end to lee helping with weather helm. Although I'm not able to pull in the genoa very tight so pointing up is minimal.
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I was wondering that myself....if bringing ur 150 all the way aft as possible would make a difference
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27-01-2010, 11:39
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River & Marshal Catboat
Posts: 639
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Regarding the 150% jib on the Choate 40 I believe we are dealing with a boat with a J of 16+ ft and an E of about 13 ft probably an abberation of the old IOR raceing rule. Some of these boats will not sail well if at all with just a mainsail all the emphasis was placed in large headsails. Boats with shorter J demensions do not balance well with just a jib up-they will sail many on all points but at a disadvantage and bringing the lead back may help but not same result as with IOR large J boat like Choate. This is a design flaw that most modern boats try to avoid particularly cruisers. This IOR type would incurage a sailor to use his jib as the only sail up and would be easy to balance. In tight waters if you had to tack a lot you get a good work out bringing that 150 around and triming it in. A modern design or pre IOR boat with a short J and a long boom can sail happily with just a main sail. The advantages of this are better visibility and better control of sail and boat along with the lazy advantage, less work in tacking and jibbing etc. So basicly the center of resistance of the hull and the center of force of the rig as sails are set and trimed by skipper have to be taken into consideration for each boat to appriciate the net result. I know with a six pack and some ice who cares
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27-01-2010, 12:14
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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Considered
But this Choate has been modified. The mast is 6" forward then from factory (J=15') and the main is now a 16' vs. 13' w/ a 135% genoa, which actually ballanced out the boat so well is sails itself (hands free) on a close haul and points higher then most boats out there.
But yeah! I get your point but did intend it for others to try if they have a 150% Like I use to do with the old screecher (genoa).
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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27-01-2010, 16:33
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River & Marshal Catboat
Posts: 639
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delmarrey-I was out on Puget Sound today-not much wind sloped around for a few hrs there was SUN. I sail.out of Shilshole J dock.
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