Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-01-2010, 06:25   #46
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,565
Images: 1
The dutchman system is a mainsail flaking system. When it works right it allows you to drop the main flaked neatly, quite quickly.
__________________

__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2010, 07:45   #47
Registered User
 
irwin28's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pensacola FL
Boat: Fuji 32 Ketch
Posts: 118
Send a message via MSN to irwin28
Is it like having lazy jacks?
__________________

__________________
irwin28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2010, 08:09   #48
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,565
Images: 1
Lazy jacks contain the sail when it comes down. The dutchman lines are threaded through the sail. They are both there for managing a main sail that has been doused.
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2010, 11:55   #49
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankZ View Post
Lazy jacks contain the sail when it comes down. The dutchman lines are threaded through the sail. They are both there for managing a main sail that has been doused.
Here's a link............

Doyle Sailmakers: Dutchman
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2010, 12:48   #50
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,565
Images: 1
Didn't I put a link in the #46?

And to MVB...not some silly sail maker that ripped off the manufacturer's site...
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2010, 17:38   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River,j/100 BJ
Posts: 586
The dutchman system is a main sail control unit that usually has monofilament lines that run vertical in the main sail through eyes so that when sail is dropped it flakes itself on boom. There are other mainsail control systems including variations of lazy-jack lines which are less complicated and cheaper. A full batton sail and one of these control systems and good jiffy reefing makes main sail handeling a fairly safe and easy afair. Adding a non overlaping 95% roller jib with vertical battons increases the ease of handeling. I routeenly single handed a J/44 with a big main sail useing this set up and I am over 70yrs old. With the proper rigging and gear I realy don't see a good technical reason not to set the main and sail with a balanced rig. Yes there is personal preference- but for those newbees reading this the correct sail set is the balanced rig- and if you have a good boat and can trim it right it will almost sail itself to weather.
__________________
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2010, 19:24   #52
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankZ View Post
Didn't I put a link in the #46?
Yep! And I missed it.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2010, 22:13   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Great Neck, N.Y.
Boat: Lancer 30, Little Jumps
Posts: 541
I love sailing with my fractional rig (large mainsail with dutchman system, picture old venetian blinds) as intended,
balanced with both main and jib. I sometimes sail with main alone, drives boat just fine...can't point as high.
Have been known to sail with jib only, occasionally partially
furled in wind conditions from light to howling.
Coming clean was really tough, but needed to get it out in the open.
Do I need to be rehabilitated? Is there a Betty Ford Clinic for
jib sailors?
__________________
hugosalt
s/v Little Jumps
Lancer 30
hugosalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2010, 22:40   #54
Registered User
 
Sailndive345's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 461
Posts: 349
Hugosalt, you might as well reserve a spot for me at rehab as well I fly a headsail (my chute) w/o the main fairly regularly - much easier to keep flying w/o having to constantly trim - even use a sock(!) for takedown - I guess I am also qualified for membership in the lazy sailors club

What a passionate group we have, don't we?

Sailndive
__________________
Sailndive345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2010, 00:34   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Great Neck, N.Y.
Boat: Lancer 30, Little Jumps
Posts: 541
Sailndive, your spot is reserved...trying to get upgraded to a room with an ocean view...have to go now...the self help group
is meeting.
__________________
hugosalt
s/v Little Jumps
Lancer 30
hugosalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2010, 07:31   #56
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but if one has a 150% genoa and they run the sheet as far aft as possible this helps to balance out the boat.

e.g. Mine being an old racer I have T-tracks all over the boat. One runs along the bulwalk from just forward the mast to the last few inches of the deck. I've put a track block all the way aft and run the sheet thru and back to the winch. So in effect is pulls the aft end to lee helping with weather helm. Although I'm not able to pull in the genoa very tight so pointing up is minimal.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2010, 11:02   #57
Registered User
 
irwin28's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pensacola FL
Boat: Fuji 32 Ketch
Posts: 118
Send a message via MSN to irwin28
Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but if one has a 150% genoa and they run the sheet as far aft as possible this helps to balance out the boat.

e.g. Mine being an old racer I have T-tracks all over the boat. One runs along the bulwalk from just forward the mast to the last few inches of the deck. I've put a track block all the way aft and run the sheet thru and back to the winch. So in effect is pulls the aft end to lee helping with weather helm. Although I'm not able to pull in the genoa very tight so pointing up is minimal.
I was wondering that myself....if bringing ur 150 all the way aft as possible would make a difference
__________________
irwin28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2010, 12:39   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River,j/100 BJ
Posts: 586
Regarding the 150% jib on the Choate 40 I believe we are dealing with a boat with a J of 16+ ft and an E of about 13 ft probably an abberation of the old IOR raceing rule. Some of these boats will not sail well if at all with just a mainsail all the emphasis was placed in large headsails. Boats with shorter J demensions do not balance well with just a jib up-they will sail many on all points but at a disadvantage and bringing the lead back may help but not same result as with IOR large J boat like Choate. This is a design flaw that most modern boats try to avoid particularly cruisers. This IOR type would incurage a sailor to use his jib as the only sail up and would be easy to balance. In tight waters if you had to tack a lot you get a good work out bringing that 150 around and triming it in. A modern design or pre IOR boat with a short J and a long boom can sail happily with just a main sail. The advantages of this are better visibility and better control of sail and boat along with the lazy advantage, less work in tacking and jibbing etc. So basicly the center of resistance of the hull and the center of force of the rig as sails are set and trimed by skipper have to be taken into consideration for each boat to appriciate the net result. I know with a six pack and some ice who cares
__________________
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2010, 13:14   #59
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Considered

But this Choate has been modified. The mast is 6" forward then from factory (J=15') and the main is now a 16' vs. 13' w/ a 135% genoa, which actually ballanced out the boat so well is sails itself (hands free) on a close haul and points higher then most boats out there.

But yeah! I get your point but did intend it for others to try if they have a 150% Like I use to do with the old screecher (genoa).
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2010, 17:33   #60
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River,j/100 BJ
Posts: 586
delmarrey-I was out on Puget Sound today-not much wind sloped around for a few hrs there was SUN. I sail.out of Shilshole J dock.
__________________

__________________
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB: Headsail for Pearson 30 JMerc Classifieds Archive 0 07-10-2009 07:36
Needed: Headsail stoupidmonkey Classifieds Archive 1 14-04-2008 23:31
headsail furler johneri1 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 22 17-01-2008 22:16
Furling Headsail Steve Kidson Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 6 01-02-2007 14:14
Help with choosing a new headsail bmiller General Sailing Forum 5 14-04-2006 20:34



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.