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Old 24-01-2010, 18:10   #31
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headsail only

I am also over 70 and will on occasion sail with one sail up. Some times for safety sometimes for lazzyness. But I try to use the sail that is most appropriate for the situation not the one that is eassiest to set unless doing so is dangerous. On some older ior boats with short booms and large J the boat wont sail well with just main- jib is better balanced-on most other sloops a main and bald fore deck is a handier deal than jib alone-down wind jib alone is fine especially in a 15+ k situation. I have nothing against people who want to go out there and just slop around with a jib they are enjoying themselves as they wish. But if you are going to sail your boat as it was designed to be sailed that's not it. There are all kinds of sailors(no value judgement here) and how you set your sails says something about the nature of your relationship to sailing.
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Old 24-01-2010, 19:52   #32
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LOL! Slop around... Glad there was no value judgment in your post. I guess ego just HAS to make it into some peoples' posts..

I don't think any here was talking about setting out for a day's sail with just one sail up. I think it was more along the lines of putting up a sail for a short period to move the boat.

It would be great if we could all dispense with insulting others and just give sound advice. Especially if we admit in our own post that we also partake on the laziness that we insult, ourselves.
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Old 25-01-2010, 00:20   #33
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Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
You want to steer, or open the beer? Bring Charliecobra along.
Bluestocking sails a lot under jib alone-perfectly balanced.
Its a date..
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Old 25-01-2010, 10:49   #34
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Well that certainly roused a strong emotional resonse. I have made my previous statment based on many years of day sailing(not including coastal sailing there observations on one sail are different). In winter daysail 2x week-summer 5x week 3 to 6 hrs/day both east and west coasts. There are a goodly number of people who will go out for a day sail with just furling jib cover on mainsail and compaired to the progress of a boat with full sail well set in our northwest light air they often SLOP around actually boats with full sail often slop around but not as often or as much as a daysailer with short sail so what? Sometimes I will go out for lunch in light air and not eaven set sail. The point is that a properly designed sloop(if that is what we are talking about) under most conditions is a better sailboat with both sails up. While any sailor with a roller furling jib may on occasion sail with this single sail out there are buy my observasions a fair number of boats that come out (same boats) time and time again with just the jib often in conditions that obviously call for more sail.Now that tells me something about the way the skipper likes or is able to sail.I do not hold this agaist the skipper in any way but if we are talking about useing a roller furling jib only I am pointing out that it is rarely efficient and not what most boats are designed for and yes it is sometimes a sign of lazzyness which most humans suffer from time to time
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Old 25-01-2010, 16:08   #35
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Laziness ?

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Some times for safety sometimes for lazzyness.
Quote:
yes it is sometimes a sign of lazzyness
Quote:
we also partake on the laziness
I know this is slightly off topic but I need to challenge some assumptions ( lazy thinking) here.
IMO there are all sorts of ways of sailing a boat. It's why in single class racing some boats win and some boats lose.
If you are going to be consistent with this laziness argument, then if you use an autopilot, have extra crew, use your motor or knowingly stay on a tack longer than you should, this is being lazy.
In fact, we are all being lazy every time we hit the water. Maybe we all should be back at home mowing the lawn or cleaning out the gutters.
Saying someone is lazy because of the sailing choices they make smacks of a snobbishness that I don't adher to.

Jim
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Old 25-01-2010, 16:27   #36
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Originally Posted by jpemb7 View Post
If you are going to be consistent with this laziness argument, then if you use an autopilot, have extra crew, use your motor or knowingly stay on a tack longer than you should, this is being lazy.
In fact, we are all being lazy every time we hit the water. Maybe we all should be back at home mowing the lawn or cleaning out the gutters.

Jim
Uh oh, Jim, I had no idea that I had so far to go to be a lazy sailor. I have to hire someone extra, burn more diesel, use my autopilot, and figure out just how long I need to be on tack so that I can then stay too long. Whew! I have a long way to go! All I did was raise the jib for a few minutes to move the boat towards the marina.
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Old 25-01-2010, 16:48   #37
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Uh oh, Jim, I had no idea that I had so far to go to be a lazy sailor.
I think you missed my point but.. heh.. it's all good.
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Old 25-01-2010, 17:00   #38
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I think you missed my point but.. heh.. it's all good.
No, I got it. Just thought I'd play with the rhetoric a bit more.
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Old 25-01-2010, 17:41   #39
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So in summary what I am trying to tell the original thread writer is that his boat will sail better with two sails properly set and reefed if indicated. And if he puts in the effort(works his boat) he will be rewarded with better performance increased safety and a sweeter helm and on his way to learning more about the finer points of sailing. While push botton sailing is on its way-what happens when the computer burps. it will be a sorry replacement for a crew with knowlege and a good work ethic and will take away the great joy of a sailor working his boat through the waves and into the wind. So are the crews of the boats he sees with jib and main cover on lazy? Depending on the cercumstances some must be.
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Old 25-01-2010, 18:41   #40
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So in summary what I am trying to tell the original thread writer is that his boat will sail better with two sails properly set and reefed if indicated. And if he puts in the effort(works his boat) he will be rewarded with better performance increased safety and a sweeter helm and on his way to learning more about the finer points of sailing. While push botton sailing is on its way-what happens when the computer burps. it will be a sorry replacement for a crew with knowlege and a good work ethic and will take away the great joy of a sailor working his boat through the waves and into the wind.
The above is all very true but if someone has all these skills and chooses not to use them that doesn't make them lazy, just less intense. Individuals get their joy from sailing in many different ways.

Sometimes I like to have my boat all geared up, other times I like to just sit and stare at the shoreline.

The latter is not laziness. It's just a different perspective.

Jim
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Old 25-01-2010, 20:26   #41
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I don't think there anything so terrible about being lazy. I believe it was Ben Franklin who said he invented things because he was basicly lazy and wanted an easy way. The bad conotation of the word comes when and how the laziness is applyed. If it is applied at the cost of others bad- if it is how one likes to sail and purely a personl matter no value judement needed. The word lazy still fits as a valid discription of some if not many of the jib sailers as described by original thread and my daysailing observations. Not much different than the many cruising boats under power in a good fair breesze. Many of these boats I observe could sail as fast or faster than they are going under power why? Some of these people must to some degree be lazy. My opinion The advances in sail handeling gear have opened sailing up to a large number of a new breed of sailors who in the past would have opted for motor boats to avoid the work and learning curve needed for sailing before . I have spent enough time at yacht sales yards to know that many sailboat buyers were getting into something beyond there experence and for too many more than they wanted to put out the effort to master particularly if it meant hard work and learning. An extreme and true example of this phenomenum occured when a new boat owner bought a twin motor boat with all the latest gear. Skipper turned the key took his family out boating and lost one motor in open water(moderate conditions). Skipper panics-calls mayday-tug with tow in area-skipper goes to tug wanting to be saved-tangles with tow line- boat sinks-wife dies. More push button boats-more video game skippers- why do I get into this with roller rigs? because misapplied they are one step closser to the push botton turn the key boat.
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Old 25-01-2010, 22:19   #42
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We probably agree more than you think. But language is a very powerful tool and we need to use it carefully.
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idleness, negligence, inactivity, slowness, sloth, sluggishness, slackness, indolence, tardiness, dilatoriness, slothfulness, do-nothingness, faineance Current employment laws will be changed to reward effort and punish laziness.
Collins Thesaurus of the English Language Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002
I think I'll leave it at that.
Jim
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Old 25-01-2010, 22:28   #43
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I have a friend that I sail with on occasion that turned 73 this year. When he is out alone he generally only unrolls as the main is a bit of work. He will hoist the main for a longer day or trip but not for just a 4 hour or so day sail. It keeps him sailing.
Lhazzz Zeee! He needs to learn how to sail and quit insulting the rest of us by making us look bad!
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Old 25-01-2010, 22:48   #44
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Why I Like a Ketch

When you're just out for fun, you "jib and Jigger" and leave that big rascal in the middle stowed. That's the advantage of two masts and roller furling- it's easy to
balance the boat

Of course if you are planning to get somewhere or to point high, you have to use the main on a ketch-it adds a tremendous amount of power. I have a dutchman system so it's not too hard to handle, but for a dinner/sunset cruise front and back does it for me (and I don't have to crank that big sucker up.
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Old 26-01-2010, 05:20   #45
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When you're just out for fun, you "jib and Jigger" and leave that big rascal in the middle stowed. That's the advantage of two masts and roller furling- it's easy to
balance the boat

Of course if you are planning to get somewhere or to point high, you have to use the main on a ketch-it adds a tremendous amount of power. I have a dutchman system so it's not too hard to handle, but for a dinner/sunset cruise front and back does it for me (and I don't have to crank that big sucker up.
Explain to me a dutchman system?
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