Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-01-2014, 05:12   #16
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,936
Images: 1
Re: Sail combinations

Giant had some excellent advice on sail trim. I'll repeat part of it, because you might not have understood it completely. If you're sailing hard up on the wind, move your mainsail sheet car across the traveller until it is past center (towards the wind side). This means you will be pulling the boom across when you sheet in and not down, which in turn means your sail will continue to maintain twist.

Another poster noted that in light wind, it is a good idea to loosen your mainsail halyard a bit until you see some small horizontal ripples in the sail - now you have deeper draft and the boat will pull better through the waves. Good idea to also loosen you boom outhaul an inch or two

The same is true for your genua. Loosen the halyard an inch or two. Tighten it up again when the wind increases.
__________________

__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 10:59   #17
Registered User
 
RainDog's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Varies
Boat: Pacific Seacraft 34 #142
Posts: 1,183
Re: Sail combinations

Quote:
Originally Posted by giant View Post
The poster is looking at tips for sailing hard into the wind so don't think the drifter is going to help him much there not that I have ever used one. Good sail to have for off the wind though.
Drifter is just a large genoa made of lighter material. It should point as well as any other genoa/jib in light winds.
__________________

RainDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 11:06   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Sail combinations

I'd go Yankee and full main in the conditions you describe. Going to weather no staysail will be just as good as dealing with it up.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 11:22   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,924
Re: Sail combinations

Drifters are not great for pointing in any air, nothing will be better than a well cut well trimmed genoa.
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 13:27   #20
Registered User
 
RainDog's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Varies
Boat: Pacific Seacraft 34 #142
Posts: 1,183
Re: Sail combinations

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing.... when you say drifter do you mean (form Port Townsend Sails):

"The drifter—also called a reacher—is a time-honored, handy, and versatile sail. Unlike other light air sails, it carries satisfactorily on all points of sail. A drifter generally allows a vessel to sail close hauled and to tack, and it’s very easy to control when set and struck. This sail is essentially a large, powerful, hanked on genoa built of light weight fabric. Its intended wind range is 3-12 knots apparent, and its size on a sloop generally ranges from 140 to 160 percent of the fore-triangle area. A drifter can be made of
nylon, Dacron, or a laminated sailcloth made of various “exotic” fibers."

or are you thinking of something more like a Code 0?
RainDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 13:35   #21
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: holland michigan
Boat: Gulfstar 50 ketch
Posts: 456
Images: 3
Re: Sail combinations

Drifters can also be flown/ designed to have their own luff tape/rope. This way no hanks required, just roll up the headsail and hoist the drifter on a spin halyard. Great sail for light air days to go up wind.
__________________
ctl411 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 13:42   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,924
Re: Sail combinations

Drifters are great sails to have in light air and of course they will sail quite nicely upwind but the draft is typically much deeper than white sails and nylon won't hold the draft forward so while it does OK upwind it will not point with a regular sail.
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 23:08   #23
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Sail combinations

Well hello all again. First, regarding thread drift. Yes, there was a little bit of drift from my original question but honestly it's all gold so I'm just grateful for the advice given. The whole genoa vs drifter thing is clearly another discussion in itself and one I will follow up on.

Meanwhile I am back from the trip now, and, needless to say nothing went to plan. The forecast SE 10 - 15 knots became a 6 knot SW by 10:30 in the morning and we ended up doing a lazy loop to the NW before coming home at 13:00 only to have it blow up to 15 - 20 knots five minutes after we tied up. So no real test of sail plan but I did take note that we had telltales on the trailing edge of the main, which I am embarrassed to confess I had not really noted before. Oops. But none on the trailing edge of the genoa so I will add them pronto.

Anyway, thank you for all the advice and I'll try the ideas given.

Happy sailing,

Matt
__________________
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
http://www.swansonsailor.id.au
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 23:19   #24
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM
Lots of good instructions about how to trim a jib, use telltales, trim main etc on a sloop. Pity that's not what the OP asked.

I'd still try the 100% yankee plus 60% staysail over the 130% genoa as a first try, especially if, as you say, you have found in the past that the genoa backwinds the main close hauled in light winds. You might not point quite so high, but you can trim all three sails for maximum efficiency.
I think he's trying to make best VMG to windward. For that, don't think about using the staysail, which will slow you down. You need to trim carefully, and there's lots of good advice here. The object is to get the best proportion of lift versus drag, and it's the most challenging trimming you'll do. The Yankee by itself might be better than the genoa in some wind conditions, and depending on how it's cut. Then remember that best VMG will not occur at the highest possible wind angle - speed falls off rapidly when you start to pinch, overcoming any advantage from a better angle. Your instruments can help determine best VMG to windward - just set a waypoint dead upwind and watch VMG to waypoint reading.

Backwinding a bit of the mainsail near the luff is not necessarily a problem - some call it a "speed bubble". Happens on my boat when I'm hard on the wind and trimmed just right.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 23:24   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,924
Re: Sail combinations

You don't need tell tales on the trailing edge of the head sail. You attach them a couple of feet back from the leading edge.
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 23:31   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,709
Re: Sail combinations

> But none on the trailing edge of the genoa so I will add them pronto.

I've never seen telltales on the the trailing edge of a headsail. The luff ones tell you all you need to know.
__________________
StuM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 23:38   #27
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Sail combinations

OK, first question. I have a decent MPS (asym). From my understanding so far this is similar to a drifter and though I may be able to point higher with a drifter, I gather that my current sail combination is pretty versatile. Main, genoa, Yankee, staysail, asym and storm jib.

But, like many things on the boat, they are scheduled for replacement in a year or two so I wonder if it is time to review the wardrobe before blindly replacing it all.

Any thoughts?

Matt
__________________
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
http://www.swansonsailor.id.au
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 23:40   #28
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Sail combinations

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
> But none on the trailing edge of the genoa so I will add them pronto.

I've never seen telltales on the the trailing edge of a headsail. The luff ones tell you all you need to know.

Ah, ok, I will review those posts I thought someone mentioned them on the genoa but I might have misunderstood.
__________________
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
http://www.swansonsailor.id.au
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2014, 23:41   #29
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Sail combinations

Stu, not sure why but some of your post text appears to be missing until I try to quote it. I think you are suggesting the telltales are not needed on the trailing edge of the genoa?
__________________
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
http://www.swansonsailor.id.au
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2014, 00:04   #30
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,936
Images: 1
Re: Sail combinations

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Stu, not sure why but some of your post text appears to be missing until I try to quote it. I think you are suggesting the telltales are not needed on the trailing edge of the genoa?
You do not need tickers on the trailing edge of the genua. The genua has them on both side at the front of the sail.

Ticlers on the trailing edge are on the mainsail. You should had done by each batten
__________________

__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.