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Old 15-01-2015, 19:52   #31
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Re: "Safe passing distance"

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Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
Commercial marine companies do not establish minimum CPAs, Master's of the vessels do, and it is in their standing orders and night orders.

As stated above, some do,some don't.
Here's a couple that do for your information

http://www.fleetship.com/ui2012/1337...8_cheklist.pdf
http://www.siamluckymarine.com/MAROP...NG%20ORDER.pdf

Both state minimum CPA to be 1M
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Old 15-01-2015, 21:27   #32
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Re: "Safe passing distance"

While commercial marine companies like to think that they run the vessels, they don't, nor do they have the responsibility of the safe navigation of the vessel. Every company's Safety program has a proviso that states "The Master has the overriding authority to set aside any company rules as he/she deems fit." Thereby throwing the onus back on the Master to perform safe navigation. So again, in spite of what the company manual may say, the Master is the one who establishes the minimum CPA for the vessel. Many commercial marine companies have tried, but no one can take the authority or responsibility from the Master. The commercial marine companies want the authority, but they shrink from owning the responsibility. The corporate culture is all about CYA. In the event of a collision the USCG comes to the Master to answer for it, not the company safety officer.
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Old 16-01-2015, 04:15   #33
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Re: "Safe passing distance"

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
For purposes of determining whether you are give-way or not, naturally:

"(d) The term “vessel engaged in fishing” means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict manoeuvrability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manoeuvrability"


But you still want to take extra care in a crossing with any vessel with any kind of gear in the water, wouldn't you agree? It certainly influences how close you will be willing to pass behind! It also says a lot about what the crew is concentrating on at the moment!

Yeah, this is one of those where I know it's gonna take me about -mile to make a 180 turn without seriously tangling lines and lures and so forth... so while that doesn't "restrict maneuverability" in the COLREGs sense... it's a lot of money we've got submerged out there at any given time.

And we have an effective beam of about 150' and the longest line is usually 200-300 yards behind us.

IOW, I have to start any avoidance action way earlier than one would normally expect...

It's more difficult around here with all the small boat traffic. Other fish guys generally know what's happening. Most others don't.

It would be slightly easier if recreational boats had VHF radios. Turned on. Audible from their cockpit. With somebody paying attention...

Much easier dealing with big ships...

-Chris
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Old 16-01-2015, 04:32   #34
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Re: "Safe passing distance"

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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Yeah, this is one of those where I know it's gonna take me about -mile to make a 180 turn without seriously tangling lines and lures and so forth... so while that doesn't "restrict maneuverability" in the COLREGs sense... it's a lot of money we've got submerged out there at any given time.

And we have an effective beam of about 150' and the longest line is usually 200-300 yards behind us.

IOW, I have to start any avoidance action way earlier than one would normally expect...

It's more difficult around here with all the small boat traffic. Other fish guys generally know what's happening. Most others don't.

It would be slightly easier if recreational boats had VHF radios. Turned on. Audible from their cockpit. With somebody paying attention...

Much easier dealing with big ships...

-Chris
Indeed, and that's good that you've posted that for all of us who might not be aware of this.

Rule 2 says to use good seamanship, which includes common sense, which includes doing everything reasonable to avoid causing awkwardness or problems for other mariners. It means understanding that a fish boat trolling long lines will have trouble maneuvering -- so if you can possibly alter course -- before a risk of collision exists -- so that no Colregs situation ever arises in the first place and the fish boat doesn't need to maneuver -- that's a very good move. It's not just courteous, it's required where it's reasonably possible to do it.
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Old 16-01-2015, 10:36   #35
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Re: "Safe passing distance"

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Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
While commercial marine companies like to think that they run the vessels, they don't, nor do they have the responsibility of the safe navigation of the vessel. Every company's Safety program has a proviso that states "The Master has the overriding authority to set aside any company rules as he/she deems fit." Thereby throwing the onus back on the Master to perform safe navigation. So again, in spite of what the company manual may say, the Master is the one who establishes the minimum CPA for the vessel. Many commercial marine companies have tried, but no one can take the authority or responsibility from the Master. The commercial marine companies want the authority, but they shrink from owning the responsibility. The corporate culture is all about CYA. In the event of a collision the USCG comes to the Master to answer for it, not the company safety officer.
Well. Sort of. You're absolutely correct the master has the last say.

However, adherence to the Safety Management System is usually a condition of employment.

Everybody has a boss, they aren't elected pirate Captains.

And recently a few authorised representatives have received jail time. Costa Concordia and the South Korean Ferry accident come to mind.

After Costa Concordia how do you think a captain at carnival would have faired if he thumbed his nose at the SMS.


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