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Old 20-04-2010, 19:13   #16
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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post

@RTB - If you are sailing with one full sail and flying becuse of conditions you definitely need to be sailing with 2 reefed sails. But you know that now, of course.
Absolutely. Just thought I'd share and save a new guy the same mistake(s) made and point out possible mis-handling of furling gear.
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Old 20-04-2010, 19:41   #17
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Originally Posted by teejayevans View Post
I've seen it go from 5 to 45 in seconds, like you said, its hard not to have all
sails up when you have light winds. I would turn into the wind and roll like a
mad man ;-)
Tom
But were there not obvious clouds of some sort, a weather forecast, or a small but obvious indication of a front boundary? I doubt all three were absent. We just ignor them.
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Old 20-04-2010, 20:00   #18
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Ahoy, whats this trick of keeping tension on the furler control line as you let the jib out on the furler, Is it standard practice to do this, does it minimise the possibility of an overun on the furler drum?
I have had to run off downwind while I dissambled the guard on the drum to release an overun on the furler drum, single handed, under autopilot, got very wet in quite strong winds. Not an experience I want to repeat with my 31 footer!
Fair winds from Keith.
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Old 20-04-2010, 21:22   #19
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Harken recommends that you use one of their hexaratchets. Doesn't resist furling, provides drag when unfurling. The previous owner put mine in a bad place because I have to remember to put the furling line forward on the side deck to get close to 180 degrees of wrap on the block to provide enough drag. Most times it's easier for me to just put a single wrap on the spinnaker winch to provide the drag.

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Originally Posted by surfmachine View Post
Ahoy, whats this trick of keeping tension on the furler control line as you let the jib out on the furler, Is it standard practice to do this, does it minimise the possibility of an overun on the furler drum?
I have had to run off downwind while I dissambled the guard on the drum to release an overun on the furler drum, single handed, under autopilot, got very wet in quite strong winds. Not an experience I want to repeat with my 31 footer!
Fair winds from Keith.
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Old 20-04-2010, 23:05   #20
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Ahoy, whats this trick of keeping tension on the furler control line as you let the jib out on the furler, Is it standard practice to do this, does it minimise the possibility of an overun on the furler drum?.
In my opinion it's a good idea - rolls up the furling line nice and tight. I do it pretty much every time and have never had a problem with any furler.

I've led the furling line so that it can be wrapped around the unused primary winch on either side to let the sail out under control.

I also use the primaries to take the sail in if i'm overpowered - easing sheet is obviously critical in this scenario.
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Old 20-04-2010, 23:15   #21
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Harken recommends that you use one of their hexaratchets.
So would I if I was a hexaratchet manufacturer

A controlled release is the key - you can do it with a hexarachet, a winch, a deck cleat - anything that controls the line going out, as long as it is it is suitable for the forces involved.

As boat / sail size gets bigger there will come a point where a hexeratchet isn't suitable.
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Old 20-04-2010, 23:58   #22
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the correct way to furl in a sudden squall?


This probably isnt the correct way, but its our way.

Remember in a sudden squally you don't know if it will hit 50 kts for 2 minutes at the leading edge and then drop back to 15 kts. you just know nothing about it except what you are getting.

1. Push the Door Bell. We have a wireless doorbell the button is at the helm and the remote is where the off watch member is sleeping.
2. Maintain Course unless Auto Pilot switches off. in that case let boat come up to wind.
3. Left the Genoa FLY. Don't worry about the flogging just let it fly.
4. Furl Genoa by HAND. Never by winch. Just keep working on it, waiting for the little lulls and flaps to get in a bit more.
5. Attend to the main
6. Get back on course
7. Swear at the Off Watch crew for taking so long to get on deck!

The worst situations are the ones at night when rain hits at the same time and the auto pilot alarm goes off. Sometimes so bad I don't have any idea of direction. Its no use to head down wind or up wind as who knows where the hell that is? Just get it furled.

Another point against just heading down wind is that, sure the genoa might be covered a bit by the main, but then you have to come up to reef the main because you have 50 kts in a full main.

Its just the leading edges of a squall thats the worst. then it settles in speed and direction, normally within 2 minutes. Usually we find the wind drops by half within those 2 minutes.

Our Auto Pilot wouldn't click off but for severe squalls and then only in the first instance.

In the day time when we can see squalls coming our first action is to furl the Genoa.

We would LOVE a furling main because then either of us alone could furl both easily at night when the deck is vertical

As I said at the beginning this probably isnt the correct way, but its our way. practice and see what works best for you


Mark
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Old 21-04-2010, 01:32   #23
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Hi Mark, I agree with you, never use the winch on the control line!
Do you sail under full headsail at night, most times, or sail with a reef in the main and partially furled headsail?
What about using a drag on control line when letting out the headsail?
Cheers from Keith.
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Old 21-04-2010, 01:55   #24
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As someone said, falling off reduces the pressure wonderfully, making the sail much easier to furl.

We had a little incident last fall in a tremendous blow, 40's gusting to 50, when a furling control line broke and our yankee, which was supposed to be well reefed, unfurled completely. I thought we were going to broach, then it occurred to me to fall off and ease the sheet.

I would not have just let the sheet fly as Mark suggested; it would have flogged the boat to death in such a wind.

Falling off was like pressing the "mute" button. I was able to get a crew member forward (clipped on) to bend another line onto the stub of the control line, and like that we managed to get the sail furled, without any further drama.
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Old 21-04-2010, 02:13   #25
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Hi Mark, I agree with you, never use the winch on the control line!
I was mate on a swan 651 racing trans atlantic whilst the skipper tried to furl the genoa on a coffee grinder. It put 6 twists in the FOIL!

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Do you sail under full headsail at night, most times, or sail with a reef in the main and partially furled headsail?
We always sail at night as we would in the day.
It would be totally boring for the person on watch to sail slowly. How could they be expected to remain awake when you are doing 2 knots when you know you could be doing 6?
And how insulting for me to say to Nic or a crew member: Ohhh you're on watch... I better shorten sail! She would hit me. LOL Apart from that she has a nasty ability of doing more miles in her 4 hours than me

Also we never use torches on deck at night (excepot for checking sail shape) so we have to know where everything is in the pitch dark Remember those tricks of tying a bowline behind your back or blindfolded? Damn usefull! but you get to know your own boat

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What about using a drag on control line when letting out the headsail?
Cheers from Keith.
Yes, we put the furling line around a winch and ease it out. The only time we use a winch with it.
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Old 21-04-2010, 03:07   #26
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I have a Shannon scutter rig boat. I have had no trouble reefing my Genoa in any conditions. First of all, the old saying, "reef early" applies here. Although you can get caught occasionally by surprise, approaching squalls usually show some signs a bearing down before they arrive. Secondly, on my boat - I have always been able to reef by easing the weather sheet while winching in the furler in heavy weather. If you have a name brand furler, most are not jammed or ruined by putting them on a winch. Just be sure you don't overdue the loads. The biggest risk is a parted furling line if you overtax the loads, which incidently, in a storm as far as problems go can be a biggie. If this technique looks like it is going to overload the running rigging, I would then probably look at bearing off until my main at least partially blanketed the jib, or, just let the weather sheet fly and bring in the drum.
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Old 21-04-2010, 03:21   #27
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Indeed. We've talked about this. The furling lines on some boats cannot possibly be brought in without a winch. Our yankee jib is 830 square feet, with luff length of more than 70 feet. The furlers are big heavy duty Selden Furlex 400S jobs. They work fine with a winch. You just have to feel what is happening with them (but this is true of all rigging) and stop immediately if it feels wrong.

And it is elementary that you need to have the load off the sail before you furl it. Some combination of easing the sheet, heading off, blanketing with the main if necessary.
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Old 23-04-2010, 23:43   #28
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I agree with Jim and all others that winch in furled jibs... BUT remember, I think this set of advice is for bigger boats, more load we are dealing with... what makes sense and is needed on a larger boat, isn't needed on smaller ones.... just look at the winches, blocks, line size, etc and you'll quickly see the difference between yachts...

My advice mirrors the others... do what's right for YOUR boat.... go out and practice reefing on that windy day, take some friends and learn your yacht... try veering off, try pinching into the wind to furl, furl by hand, try gently furling on a winch, try unfurling your jib with one wrap of the control line on a winch, reef the main first... furl the jib first... find out what suits you, your crew, your yacht... then when that storm hits, you'll have practiced a few different methods... and know which to use... I strongly believe that anyone on these boards with advice that ALWAYS should be followed... i just don't trust... they might be right, but then again they might be an armchair sailor... you never know... flexibility, experience, and practice will help you make the correct call when the time comes...

We crossed the Pacific last year... we would sail as fast as safe... averaged 5.5 knots over 10,000 miles... but at night if the wind was predicted to increase, or squalls were around... we would put a reef in the main, JUST so the on-watch person could easily roll in the jib and keep control of the boat without the off-watch person up to 25 knots... as our boat still sails well in strong winds with a reef in the jib and the headie mostly furled in... all by the on-watch person....

YES we do put the jib furler control line on a winch... then we crack the headie sheet as we take a small bit on the furling line via the winch... the key is small bits, easing the headie first, then taking up the slack on the furling line... once you've done it enough, you don't need to even turn on a light.. it's all touch, sound, and for every inch you pull in your de-powering your boat....it's all a matter of practice.

We also have a heavy duty Selden Furlex 400S.... so it's big for the job, the control line is beefy, the control blocks are good sized, and I have a few extra wraps STILL on the drum when the sail is fully out.. .this keep from having the winch tension on the control line strip the last few wraps off the drum which would cause a trip up to the foredeck (the key is to know your boat, take apart your furler and see just what holds your control line on... ours is just a small plastic piece and one screw, designed to release the control line before breaking the furler... hence the extra wraps).

cheers,
Jeff
S/V Nemesis
Sydney, Australia
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Old 24-04-2010, 05:36   #29
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Right, that's exactly the way we do it. I think it's obvious, if you think about it, that nothing good come from a situation where a line which is expected to roll up neatly on the furling gear drum, is just flying out of control. I don't think it would be good for the sail, either, to be allowed to just fly open.

We always take a turn around a winch and feed out the furling line gradually as the sheet unfurls the sail. A little tension keeps the sail from just flying open, and lets the furling line feed smoothly onto onto the furling drum Here electric sheet winches are great -- because they pull out the sheet with an even, steady pull.

Like that, the sail doesn't flog. It will fill early and smoothly produce drive.

Like CapStbd, we set up the furler so that there are a couple of wraps on the drum with the sail fully furled.

Furling is the reverse. We unload the sail one way or another, and start furling
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Old 24-04-2010, 07:32   #30
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Same here, have a cleat close by the turning blocks for both furling lines, matter of catching a turn around the cleat with the furling line before unfurling either head sail.
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