Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-10-2016, 20:00   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Whistler, B.C., Canada
Posts: 8
Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

Hello. Can you ride out a Force 12 (forecast sustained 64kt. winds) at anchor in a harbour? The short of it -- my father recently told me that he does not want his boat, and asked if I would take her off his hands. I have been scouring marina space in Metro Vancouver, and I am in the process of making arrangements to bring her to Point Roberts Marina (those people are lovely) when I found out today about this typhoon-fuelled storm with Cat. 1 force winds about to smash the PNW by Saturday. If I can get on a ferry after work Friday, I am going to try to get to Ladysmith and see if I can board her and check to make sure that the anchor is secure. I have some sailing experience, but absolutely no knowledge about how to ride out a storm of this force at anchor. I have been having nightmares all day about the anchor slipping, and the vessel running aground or colliding with another vessel. Any advice is humbly appreciated.
__________________

__________________
seiler.joseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 20:26   #2
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Hanging with the owner's daughter ;)
Boat: Anything entertaining.
Posts: 3,138
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

For such events it's usually possible to find space tied up in a safe harbor, though you need to be willing to alter your approach in asking.

And to answer your original question, yes it's possible, & has been done. But staying onboard isn't really recommended. Plus, setting up a boat for anchoring in heavy weather is usually something which is done over time, so that all of the necessary gear is on hand, & is well tested.
__________________

__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 20:44   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108
Posts: 5,526
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

The fetch of the waves is the determinate. If there is short or no fetch for the waves to build up, shouldn't be an issue with large enough anchor and good holding. Chafe is the big killer so double or quadruple up on any lines.

If there is any distance for waves to build up, it is probably a matter of luck if the boat would survive.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 21:00   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Ann T. Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 7,354
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seiler.joseph View Post
Hello. Can you ride out a Force 12 (forecast sustained 64kt. winds) at anchor in a harbour?


The short of it -- my father recently told me that he does not want his boat, and asked if I would take her off his hands. I have been scouring marina space in Metro Vancouver, and I am in the process of making arrangements to bring her to Point Roberts Marina (those people are lovely) when I found out today about this typhoon-fuelled storm with Cat. 1 force winds about to smash the PNW by Saturday.

If I can get on a ferry after work Friday, I am going to try to get to Ladysmith and see if I can board her and check to make sure that the anchor is secure. I have some sailing experience, but absolutely no knowledge about how to ride out a storm of this force at anchor. I have been having nightmares all day about the anchor slipping, and the vessel running aground or colliding with another vessel. Any advice is humbly appreciated.
I take it that the boat is presently at anchor?

Saturday starts at midnight Friday, do you have access to a detailed enough weather forecast to have an idea when the big storm will arrive?

I think your best bet is to get the boat to its new home, and you may have to take time off work to do it. Then look in the archives here for the advice about reducing windage, doubling or tripling up on lines. multiple fendering, and chafing gear. It can take a whole day, if you're working by yourself.

If the boat's new home is in a well protected area, you will probably not feel the full force of the storm, but remember, wind strength in gusts may be up to 40% stronger than the predicted sustained strength, which is an average. This means that you must be prepared for gusts to almost 90.

The force of wind goes up as the square of the velocity. And that is why one removes all canvas possible, and be prepared emotionally to lose what you don't remove. The weather doesn't give a hang about people.

I would not recommend staying on the boat, you're not an experienced anchorer, you do not know the condition and extent of the gear, and you can wind up losing your life. Your Dad's boat isn't worth that. At least, that's how it looks from the other side of the earth.

Good luck, Joseph.

Ann
__________________
Ann & Jim, U.S. s/v Insatiable II, free at last, will check in when in internet range
Ann T. Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 21:10   #5
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Hanging with the owner's daughter ;)
Boat: Anything entertaining.
Posts: 3,138
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

I forgot to mention it before, but you may even be able to find somewhere that can haul the boat out for now. And then store it safely on land for this storm, plus others to follow this winter, until you're ready to deal with the realities of owning her. As I know how fierce normal winter storms are there.
That would give you time to better get up to speed on the things Ann T. Cate mentioned, & some that haven't been covered as yet.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 21:28   #6
Registered User
 
ScottBaker's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Boatless 4Now
Posts: 10
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

Here are a few thoughts in no particular order:
1-anything visible above the waterline in winds like that = "windage" Reduce the boat's profile in any way you can. Remove all sails and stow below. Remove canvas on Dodger and Bimini and stow below. Take down wind vane, radar reflectors and anything else on deck that you care to see again. Remove flags and deflate the dingy and stow it. Tighten all your halyards or better yet, attach them to a down guy and haul them all to the masthead. Batten down the hatches!
2-I would fill the fuel and water tanks. You may find yourself motoring and the extra weight down low can help in the boats stability.
3-You'll need to asses the anchor/s on board and all the ground tackle. Note If you have multiple hooks, chain and or nylon rode and that any shackles look strong.
4-picking a good location to anchor can make or break your day. If you know ahead what direction the strong winds will be coming from anchor off a windward shore. ie: if they will be coming from the West... then anchor just east (to leeward) of land or an island that will block most of the wind.
5-if you have 2 anchors, set them both out in a V formation so that strong wind comes right down the middle of the "V"
6-Give the boat room to swing. Don't anchor 90 feet from shore with 150 feet of anchor line out. Try not to have any boats or land astern of you.
7-put out as much anchor rode as you can. when the anchor bites, drive it into the bottom with full astern motoring.
8-after your anchor/s are set, back the motor slow til the rodes stretch and note sideways ranges that you can use later to see if you've dragged. ie. line up that big tree in your eye site with the side of that building... when I look out the main window. In the storm in the dark you'll need to use a strong light to illuminate the range to see if you're holding
9-chafe on your anchor lines is a major concern. Make sure the anchor rode exits your bow cleanly and add leather or hose material at chafe points to protect the rode and boat.
10-an alternative way to anchor is to set your main anchor very well ... then attache a 2nd anchor to the main anchors chain about 20 feet from the main anchor... then set this anchor and then let out as much rode as you can... the 2nd anchor if set will help the lead on the first and this can work in a blow.
11-once the boat is set... decide if you are going to stay with her... there is no shame in not... there is probably insurance for the boat... but what if you get hurt... or... worse
12-if you ARE going to stay on board, think safety! Have life jackets out.. WEAR THEM, Tethers. Run jack lines. Have a first aid kit handy. have flashlights with batteries. Before the storm eat and sleep if you can, rest and strength will be needed. Foul weather gear will be needed. Towels and warm clothes... you'll be wet and cold. Layers, rain gear, boots, goggles! Rain stings your eyes at 65 kts. (hurricane strength as far as I'm concerned). wear a light- a strobe or those glow sticks. I'd have a buddy with me if I could convince one to stay with me.
13-listen to the forecast. Have your phone charged. if you have a smart phone use weather and radar apps.
14-I have weathered a blow by motoring straight into the wind (while anchored) to relieve the stress on the anchor line... One time we were running full speed ahead and just maintaining position.
15-Even with bare poles your boat will heal over in puffs and may veer left and right as the wind hits her... but if you're fairly close to a windward shore the waves should not grow too large and you should be okay. Check those ranges you created before to make sure you're holding.
16-Have a bailout plan... if the anchor does drag, know your location and where you might try to go if the wind shifts or the ***** hits the fan... consider a nice sandy beach that you could run aground on and get your arse to shore.
17-Wind that strong is loud... make sure you communicate with your buddy/s before doing anything so that everyone is on the same page... you may need to use hand signals... go over them in advance.
18- Ride that storm out Brother! In the middle of it you will be keenly aware that you ARE ALIVE! Stay that way!
19 - after the storm abates, assess your situation and buy that buddy a top shelf rum drink! Whew!
20- Go rent a slip at a marina for next time!
~Scott~
__________________
ScottBaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 21:52   #7
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 1,940
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

Best if you can get it to the marina you mentioned, I think.

But.... allow me to make some assumptions. Reading between the lines it seems possible the boat has not been used much lately. And has possibly been languishing at anchor for some period of time.

If so, then it seems important to check on it pronto. Priority may go to securing it well at anchor because there may be some unforeseen difficulty in getting underway after a period of no use.

If you decide to move to a marina, plan for more time than you think it may take so you have time to work through any problems that might present themselves. If you start the move with no time to spare and have problems with the engine, such as fuel contamination, you could get yourself in a bind.

Best of luck. I understand the stress a situation like this can create.
__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
four winds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 22:34   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Whistler, B.C., Canada
Posts: 8
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

Thank you for all the advice. I was not aware that she was sitting at anchor until about a week ago which started me actively looking for marina space. Taking it out of this harbour where she has been sitting on the hook is not an option until after Saturday (this storm starts tonight and will constantly escalate until it hits Force 12 winds because it is being fed by Typhoon Songda on the other side of the Pacific). Our winter storm season usually starts in November. My main concern would be to recheck the anchor, or try to hurry her to a nearby marina before the worst of the system rolls in.

https://weather.com/forecast/regiona...d-october-2016

I think I will just be Zen about it. The harbour is protected, on the good side of the island behind the mountains, and hopefully she does not slip and is protected from the sheer brunt of this weather. Moving this sloop across the open exposed Strait, where winds will be a sustained 40-50kts. until they peak on Sat., is not an option; especially when I will need to move through Porlier Pass (multidirectional currents, reefs) to even get out of the protection of the Gulf Islands. There is a possibility that I can snag some protected marina space in the harbour before Sat., and I can sail her across after this system clears. Thanks for the help guys.
__________________
seiler.joseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 22:40   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Whistler, B.C., Canada
Posts: 8
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by four winds View Post
Best if you can get it to the marina you mentioned, I think.
Getting it to that marina is not an option. I would need to leave the protection of the Gulf Islands to cross the Strait exposing the vessel to extreme currents, reefs and winds gusting 50-60kts. as this system continues over the weekend. I was only able to make it down to the marina last Saturday to make sure they had space and figure out the details, and I was planning on trying it this or next weekend depending on the wind and tide charts. This storm surprised me (I doubt I am alone -- how often do you expect a Japanese Typhoon to strike you on the other side of the Pacific?)
__________________
seiler.joseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 23:00   #10
DRS
Registered User
 
DRS's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver BC
Boat: Lagoon 380
Posts: 316
Images: 7
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

Ladysmith is fairly exposed. How well do you know the boat and its systems and your anchoring skills. Can you get it to Telegraph Harbour and one of the marinas on Thetis? Might be more protected in there and they may have space for transient moorage for 2 to 7 days till this blows over and you can get to Pt. Roberts

Good luck
__________________
You can sail anywhere on the planet and never be more than 7 miles from land - it might be straight down, but its never more than seven miles
DRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 23:20   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Whistler, B.C., Canada
Posts: 8
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRS View Post
Ladysmith is fairly exposed. How well do you know the boat and its systems and your anchoring skills. Can you get it to Telegraph Harbour and one of the marinas on Thetis? Might be more protected in there and they may have space for transient moorage for 2 to 7 days till this blows over and you can get to Pt. Roberts

Good luck
The irony. She was at the Thetis Marina for ages until some argument between the owner and my father (unknown to me, and God knows about what) developed. There is nothing I can do about it tonight. I will check the weather again tomorrow morning and see if I can get over from Vancouver to the Island on Friday. If I can even tie her up until Sunday at the Ladysmith Marina I will be happy. I agree: Telegraph Harbour is ideal.
__________________
seiler.joseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 23:20   #12
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 1,940
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

What do you know about the ground tackle currently in use on the boat?

Does your dad have any advice or observations about the boats ability to weather this blow at anchor?

Sounds like the best you can do is check on the condition of the gear and possibly re-anchor in the best spot available for the wind direction expected.

As mentioned, chaff protection is a must. I use a bridle/snubber and a backup snubber on a rolling hitch when weather rolls in. So three lines have to break before the chain starts sawing through the boat.

Living at anchor full time for years now, so been through a few strong storms, but no hurricanes yet. A few times with a steady 40-50 knots and gusts to about 80. Sometimes lasting for hours.

It ain't fun, but if you have confidence in your ground tackle it is just shy of terrifying. So I think it's exhilarating and a relief when it's over. The other boats are always my biggest concern.
__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
four winds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-10-2016, 01:08   #13
Registered User
 
Franziska's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Harlingen, The Netherlands
Boat: Woods Mira 35 Catamaran
Posts: 476
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

I do not know the location, but due to the shortage of time, can you not get her out at the spot with a mobile crane?
Just put her back in after the storm.

Guess any harbour operator should tolerate that in view of the situation.

www.ladyrover.com
Franziska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-10-2016, 01:27   #14
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 7,694
Images: 5
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

In 1990 I rode out 55, gusting to 65 at Half Moon Bay, Ca., in the outer harbor on the hook. "Radiance" was a 34' 12,000lb. displacement. Back then a CQR was state of the art. I had a 45lbs. CQR with 150ft. of 5/16" G4 chain paid out in 20ft. of water.
The boat would literally sail up on it's chain, then fall off and jolt me out of the V-berth. This went on for a day and a half.
Picking up the anchor after that wind, took me a couple of hours, it had dug in that well. I had a manual windlass and would pull up 4"s of chain which was actually pulling the bow down. The surge from the water would help to pull it out. I brought up a black mud, barrel shaped anchor. I left the end of the shank just below the water and chipped the mud off with a boat pole and motored around in idle to slough off the remainder. Quite the experience.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-10-2016, 01:47   #15
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,746
Re: Ride Out Force 12 at Anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
The fetch of the waves is the determinate. If there is short or no fetch for the waves to build up, shouldn't be an issue with large enough anchor and good holding. Chafe is the big killer so double or quadruple up on any lines.

If there is any distance for waves to build up, it is probably a matter of luck if the boat would survive.
Wind of that force can also wreck the boat, even without fetch. What often happens is the boat will yaw violently in the wind until it chafes through the anchor rode.

Also very often anchors don't hold in that amount of wind.

The OP should get an experienced sailor to help him button down the boat as much as possible. A second anchor is probably a good idea, and a spring line to one of the anchor rodes or something else to mitigate the yawing could help. And every possible measure for chafe protection.

The OP should not stay on board or be anywhere near the boat when the storm hits! It's only a boat.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
force 10 different on west marine vs the force 10 site boatsail Monohull Sailboats 21 18-05-2013 16:13
Crew Available: Professional Crew Looking to Help Out and Get a Ride Along to St. Martin or Antigua windrider Crew Archives 1 14-02-2011 20:29
Crew Available: Looking for a Ride Out of Cuba Edugglec Crew Archives 7 21-10-2010 09:06
Challenge: Ride Out Any Hurricane akronix Challenges 28 02-01-2010 23:17
Para-Anchor Intl. Force 10 parachute sea anchor colemj Classifieds Archive 18 03-09-2008 13:58


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.