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Old 10-03-2011, 09:27   #31
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Re: Reversing out of berth?

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Originally Posted by knotnow View Post
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Apologies for not doing more research on the vessel that the OP has.
The OP didn't actually help you because he hasn't filled out his profile yet.

We can all learn from this; if you don't know what type of boat you're giving advice for, there's a good chance you're giving bum advice. You back up a boat with an outboard differently than a boat with an inboard, do you not?
Even there, I would certainly back up a full-keeled boat differently than a fin-keeled boat. And tonnage is going to make a huge difference.

Alex21, there's no such thing as a generic boat, and what works for one type of boat may not work for another. When you ask questions like this, if you let people know what sort of boat you've got you'll probably get much better advice than you've gotten here. From the photo on your website, it appears that your boat as a bilge keeler. My guess is that 80% of the folks who have responded to your question have never backed a bilge-keeled boat out of a slip. Chances are good that you're getting some bad advice here, but until you give us better info, the answers are going to be hit or miss.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:05   #32
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Re: Reversing out of berth?

keeping it simple, quick burst than dead slow power (barely moving). keep boat hook handy and extended to push off if necessary. should be no problem unless substantial wind or current. if your slip gets much of either than i vote with boatman-- back in. you can make that easier by pre-positioning your spring lines on the outermost piles and using then to control any tendancy to walk. again the key is minimal power, take your time.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:15   #33
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Re: Reversing out of berth?

My goodness, what a huge amount of advice here.

Sorry about the original post, of course I should have made it clear that Alexandros is indeed a 7m bilge keeper with inboard diesel.

I will look at my profile and fill in the details this eve.

The general view seems to be to give short bursts astern to gain way but not enough to create propwalk. Using springs I am not too sure about as the finger berth is short and the boat next door (to port) overhangs it with his long raised (vulnerable) rudder.

Thanks again to all posters, much appreciated.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:35   #34
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Re: Reversing out of berth?

I'll admit I've never helmed a bilge keeled boat, but it's taken me about 2 years to get really good backing up our full keeled boat. I've found that what works well for us is to apply near full throttle in reverse until the boat has way, back off to idle, and use the rudder lock to lock for breif periods. IE once the boat is moving backwards and I want the stern to go port, I apply full helm to port.....as soon as the boat makes an indication of going to port I straighten the helm....once the desired direction is atained I need to "check" the swing with a little opposing helm.
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Old 11-03-2011, 13:28   #35
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Re: Reversing Out of Berth ?

Wow there is a lot of valuable information here. Thanks to you all for posting. I am studying everything I can on sailing.
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Old 11-03-2011, 16:04   #36
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Re: Reversing Out of Berth ?

I agree with Bash. My boat is a finned keel, spade rudder and inboard diesel...The mast is extreamly far forward being a cat boat and also has to be taken into account as wind makes a big difference.
Walking the boat out of the slip is a good thing but speed is important to get steerage happening. If the wind is up the large diameter mast makes a difference. I found that backing out into the main channel was the way to go...only after trying to do it the regular way.
All boats are different and should always be treated as unique.
Slow speed around other boats is the key to not creating damage. Slow speed is not great for control even though my boat has pretty good control except when windage on the mast is prevelent.
These are my observations docking in and out of my slip. Especially putting the boat where it is supposed to be when it stops within a step-off distance for yourself or crew to get the amidships spring line to the out board dock cleat first. Should help show up...direct them to grab the bow and look useful.
I do still have a lot to learn but time will provide every scinario I'm sure. Life is about learning everything in time.
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Old 11-03-2011, 18:55   #37
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Re: Reversing Out of Berth ?

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Cotemar posted: If she is pulling to port, I normally back out of the slip with the wheel hard over to Starboard and as she starts moving I slowly bring the wheel to center or direction of turn. Hard over in the opposite direction for a short distance cancels out the prop walk.
Your experience may differ from mine. Having the wheel hard over before applying reverse thrust may seem intuitive (wanting to counteract the prop-walk at the earliest possible second), but all that does is to delay accelerating to the speed that I have steerage. All I have with the rudder over to the stop is drag, because I'm trying to push a large flat surface through the water that is nearly perpendicular to fore-and-aft. Prop-walk will then be unopposed by anything. Try backing like that out in open water, and you'll see you have no true steerage at all: anything over about 45° and you've got way more drag than steering force.

Better to keep the rudder amidships so that you can reach steerage speed in the shortest possible distance, then cut the power to use your steerage and momentum. It's a rudder, not a plow.


As an aside: did I really see no less a sailor than Tom Cunliffe power in reverse in that first video, but only look back afterward? I'm choosing not to believe that. It must have been lost in the editing…
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Old 11-03-2011, 20:13   #38
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Re: Reversing Out of Berth ?

In a small boat it is also possible to place the tiller so that the boat gets moving the way you imagine then pushing her out of berth rather than motoring back. I do so with boats up to about 35' unless wind and current do not allow for such gimmicks.

At times I use another trick - I fend the side the prop walks and reverse while the bow line on the walk side is still round the post. Then we let go the line and as soon as the boat get moving we lower revs. The fenders spring back and push us away from the neighbour and towards the side we want to go. Again, impossible when wind does not co-op.

Our last trick is just to reverse all the way into clear water. But this one does not work it there is a wall or dock the way your prop walks.

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Old 12-03-2011, 07:09   #39
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Re: Reversing out of berth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
The OP didn't actually help you because he hasn't filled out his profile yet.

We can all learn from this; if you don't know what type of boat you're giving advice for, there's a good chance you're giving bum advice. You back up a boat with an outboard differently than a boat with an inboard, do you not?
Even there, I would certainly back up a full-keeled boat differently than a fin-keeled boat. And tonnage is going to make a huge difference.

Alex21, there's no such thing as a generic boat, and what works for one type of boat may not work for another. When you ask questions like this, if you let people know what sort of boat you've got you'll probably get much better advice than you've gotten here. From the photo on your website, it appears that your boat as a bilge keeler. My guess is that 80% of the folks who have responded to your question have never backed a bilge-keeled boat out of a slip. Chances are good that you're getting some bad advice here, but until you give us better info, the answers are going to be hit or miss.
If that truly be the requirement on CF then 90%+ of the threads can get locked after the first post Would also make the Mods life a bit simpler

But as CF have not yet reached the stage of requiring contributors to spoonfeed everyone...........I guess threads can carry on being created for the benefit of all - even in circumstances (most of them - and like this thread) where the only "true" answer can be given when hand is actually on the tiller. and even that answer will vary from day to day.......but methinks OP picked that up already from the responses. and others (me included) also tucked a few ideas in the bank for future reference.
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