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Old 12-08-2009, 03:05   #46
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I'm sorry but none of what this guy went through sounds like any fun. I have no plan to ever sail to Bermuda or anywhere offshore and dangerous. It just sounds awful. I especially won't be going anywhere in my Vagabond
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Old 19-10-2009, 21:58   #47
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Hey all, just found this thread through a search while we were speaking about George our long lost friend. Yes, I know George, I know of the situation and I also know the boat very well as I too helped him with a few projects, but mostly I pondered at his choices on many others projects. Now please don't get me wrong I am not knocking a friend, but in reading this thread I see that learning is (and should be) of utmost importance here.

That said, I am dissapointed in George and I'm sure that he is aware of it. He is a difficult man that wears heavy duty earplugs and extremly narrow blinders, but he none the less a good man. I am sure that he is very aware of his errors and is trying real hard to accept his mistakes.



So what can we learn from this event:

Loose the pride and listen to truth when it is made apparent by many many many others.

Take action when issues are minor and are managable; you may be the only person who can keep them from becoming unmanagable and at some point it will be just that.

Shake down cruises are not to be taken lightly; I make it a habbit to stress a boat enough until I break three substancial components. This doesn't gaurantee that something else won't go wrong, but by doing so you are some much more savy about your boat and what it can do.

Know your abilities and confine yourself to remaining just beyound those limitations; this could be either or a combination of technical, physical, mental, experience, etc.

Have an alternative plan available, if not feasible, then reach out as soon as you deem it necessary; in this case there was some 900 plus miles of habital coast line to the port where timely repairs could have been made.

Timing is everything especially with weather, don't try and cheat, compress, expand, manipulate, ignore or overmanage time; especially on a sailboat, if you do, you had better be prepaired to pay a price for your efforts.





To those new costal and/or blue water cruiser out there:

Know your abilities and that of the vessel that you are sailing; make it a goal to push the limits when you can so that you are better prepaired to react when you have to. Because it's not a matter of "if you need be ready" but a case of "when you need be ready". That said I'm not simply speaking about bad wheather off shore on your way to Bermuda in a boat that is having multiple failures.




Gil


PS until I figure out how to post fancy quotes here. let my offer you mines..

I Got-ta stop Got-ta-ing...........
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Old 19-10-2009, 23:08   #48
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The Ocean

Toy with the ocean and it will eat you alive. No sympathy here. Pure Stupidty.
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Old 20-10-2009, 03:05   #49
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So what can we learn from this event:
well spoken..
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Old 20-10-2009, 03:18   #50
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A question. What goes into the making of a successful off shore cruise? Anyone got a bullet point list? I have my own ideas but I'm interested to hear what others think.

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Old 20-10-2009, 15:02   #51
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Hey that would make a great thread....
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Old 20-10-2009, 21:56   #52
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I've read the posts here, the log there and most of the posts over there too. Seems to me that Captgil has the right of it. Lots of experience, on a DIFFERENT BOAT, heavy earplugs n blinders. George spent 5 years refitting that boat but didn't clean out the fuel tanks. Realized he had a problem with the fresh water tanks and over clorinated his water, but then never tested it before leaving. Deck cargo that wasn't lashed down in 3 directions. Lots of things that went wrong, even with all the experience.

Anyway, I'm going to pull a copy of that log and post it on the cabin wall by the nav table. It will serve to remind me that no matter how much I know or think I know, its still super easy to screw up. Murphy is a real SOB and will appear on schedule at the appropriate time and we all know that means right when life has turned into hells little half acre.

George got out with his skin intact. Who knows, maybe Gringo will be found and he can recover her. Thats in the future. For now he has his life, and a boat load of hard lessons.


Sabre
45 days n a wake up.
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Old 20-10-2009, 23:44   #53
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I had to stop reading the guys posts. I thought it was a comedy!
Can so much happen to one person on one trip?


I guess when somene is 'refitting' their boat for 6 years what they are really doing is forgetting how to sail, and, letting their boat rot for half a decade.
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Old 21-10-2009, 01:48   #54
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I guess when somene is 'refitting' their boat for 6 years what they are really doing is forgetting how to sail, and, letting their boat rot for half a decade.
Never mind poisoning the water supplies with bleach before under taking a major blue water trip

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Old 21-10-2009, 02:02   #55
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Certainly some valuable lessons there..
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Old 21-10-2009, 08:31   #56
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Never mind poisoning the water supplies with bleach before under taking a major blue water trip

Pete
Reminds me of the time I crewed on an Island Packet from Galveston to Isla Mujeras. The capt brought extra water in one gallon jugs (at my prompting). A leak developed in the vberth water tank dumping our water supply into the bilge. No problem, we have the 15 gallons of water in the jugs that I had asked the captain to bring...end of story? No. The water jugs were bought back in the 80's, they had been in some freezer in his garage, smelled like an old fish tank. So we really had less than five gallons of fresh water for 7 more days. The trip was 13 days total due to bad weather. Luckily the CG, aboard a navy ship, was cracking down on drug runners across the Gulf. They boarded us, and after the usual search for drugs, was kind enough to give us 12 gallons of water and even some fresh bread . Now I inspect the water supply of the vessels I crew on. Lesson learned.
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Old 21-10-2009, 18:24   #57
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On the bleach and water bit... the amount of bleach is 30ml per 1,000 liters. Safe, doesnt taint the water etc.

For those that don't know metric thats a rum/scotch jigger per 250 gallons. .....and don't slop it in like you do your rum!

Also chlrinated water... the chlorine will evaporate off in a few hours in a saucepan etc. When I had a fish tank.....
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Old 21-10-2009, 21:25   #58
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There is something in some sailors brain....let's call it Voyage Fever.....we have all done it....we get so wrapped up in going that we overlook/ignore things that may bite us......The most dangerous version of this illness is going to sea with a manifestly unsafe/poorly prepared vessel.....This can be structural/mechanical problems to we'll pick up water and fuel and provisons at XXX.

The simplest example of Voyage fever is not opening the seacock or not unplugging the boat from shorepower......I saw this on Tugs....alot. (not mine of course)
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Old 21-10-2009, 22:00   #59
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I think that the story goes a long way to explaining how sailors throughout history have told tales of coming upon deserted, fully stocked, vessels sailing along with no crew or signs of life aboard. All that it would seemingly take is a series of events that leads the crew to believe that they are better off -off- the boat than on it, for whatever reason.
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Old 21-10-2009, 22:09   #60
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going to sea with a manifestly unsafe/poorly prepared vessel.....
Or deluded from the beginning.. he relished his full keel.

Didn't help him much.

I'm not sure if I dispare so many newbee posters (we've all read lots) who say they want s a safe blue water boat, must have full keel...

No one has made a full keel boat since Noah so it generally means that it will be an old boat. It gets back to that other age old question: Refit and old boat or buy a new plastic fantastic.....



I'd not like to go to sea in a Hunter but I would vastly prefer a new Hunter 45 to 50 footer than a 1970's 45 to 50 footer.


(especially if I had anything to do with the refitting! LOL Screwdrivers and me... LOL the thought! In a boat yard a cretin and his fingertips are soon parted! )
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