Red Tape and Boating Licence

[laforge24]

I am dutch, live in France, looking to buy a boat and have enough sailing experience !!!
BUT THEN THE RED TAPE HITS THE FAN;
in france to sail a boat i don't need a license, except on the rivers.
when I go abroad I do need a license, maybe ICC
but since I have a dutch passport I can't get one, RYA skills do not convert to ICC standard when not UK citizen,
and having sailed international I never saw the customs ask for a license,
so what am I, and what am I going to do??

[capta]

If I were you, I just go sailing. What government has the money these days to chase you to the Caribbean (where no one needs a license except for those pesky water mosquitoes or PWC's).
I'd sneak out in the middle of the night if I had to.
New Zealand tried to stop me leaving saying my vessel did not comply w/ their marine regs after I'd sailed in OK from all the way across the Pacific Ocean (California). My vessel was not bound by their laws, only those of the country where it was registered.

[belizesailor]

Yes, if you are a transient vessel and not operating commercially then whose going to bother you (significantly) about licensing?

[goboatingnow]

when I go abroad I do need a license, maybe ICC

ehh, with the exception of Croatia , you don't need anything, its useful to have some form of ticket, but it doesn't need to be an ICC. So if you have some RYA paper, great go sailing

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Yes, if you are a transient vessel and not operating commercially then whose going to bother you (significantly) about licensing?

well croatia for one will as will greece and Portugal, but any paperwork will do , such as a RYA ticket

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by laforge24

.. ICC but since I have a dutch passport I can't get one, RYA skills do not convert to ICC standard when not UK citizen,

Fortunately that is not correct, the RYA WILL issue ICCs not only to UK citizens but also to any resident of the UK (including me when I lived there) who either passes the ICC exam or has an RYA qualification like Day Skipper, etc.. It is fairly common to see people who "faked" UK residency in their RYA ICC application form.. I have never heard of any negative consequence of "faking" residency for that purpose except the risk of that "fake" residency in the EU triggering a VAT problem on the boat of a "tourist" from outside Europe, but that is only an issue for people who are not EU residents....

Cheers

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

Fortunately that is not correct, the RYA WILL issue ICCs not only to UK citizens but also to any resident of the UK (including me when I lived there) who either passes the ICC exam or has an RYA qualification like Day Skipper, etc.. It is fairly common to see people who "faked" UK residency in their RYA ICC application form.. I have never heard of any negative consequence of "faking" residency for that purpose except the risk of that "fake" residency in the EU triggering a VAT problem on the boat of a "tourist" from outside Europe, but that is only an issue for people who are not EU residents....

Cheers

How do you have such " facts" . The RYA can legally now issue ICCs to citizens of any country that itself does not issue ICCs and are not UNECE signatories ( but can issue them to USA and Canadians citizens which are UNECE signatories)

Note that the application for an ICC in the uk requires proof of residency like a drivers license bank statement or utility bill. Not that easy to fake. .

Dave.

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

How do you have such " facts" . The RYA can legally now issue ICCs to citizens of any country that itself does not issue ICCs and are not UNECE signatories ( but can issue them to USA and Canadians citizens which are UNECE signatories)
Note that the application for an ICC in the uk requires proof of residency like a drivers license bank statement or utility bill. Not that easy to fake. .

Dave.

Dave,
The short answer is that the RYA site says "The RYA is permitted to issue the ICC to British citizens and residents".

Although it is true that, there are other ways to get an ICC from the RYA for someone who is not a resident of the UK (like being a nationals of a non-UNECE country or being american or being Canadian), I understood they were not relevant to the (Dutch?) original poster and his concern because the Netherlands is (or are? ) a UNECE country.. Hence no need to bother the OP with the UNECE stuff.. Did I miss something? Cheers

[goboatingnow]

The OP cannot legally nor easily acquire a RYA ICC he can or course seek a Dutch one. But as I pointed out any RYA paper is fine ( such as day skipper) no country in the world exclusively demands an ICC.

Dave

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by laforge24

I am dutch, live in France, looking to buy a boat and have enough sailing experience !!!
BUT THEN THE RED TAPE HITS THE FAN;
in france to sail a boat i don't need a license, except on the rivers.
when I go abroad I do need a license, maybe ICC
but since I have a dutch passport I can't get one, RYA skills do not convert to ICC standard when not UK citizen,
and having sailed international I never saw the customs ask for a license,
so what am I, and what am I going to do??

Doesn't the "requirement" for licensing tie back to ones official country of residency?

I have no idea but just throwing it out there. If you are an official resident of France and France requires no license shouldn't you just carry proof of French residency regardless of passport?

Europe is too old and confusing for me. I like it here. Life is simpler.

[rynegold]

What does ICC and RYA stand for? accronymically speaking? ;->

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Doesn't the "requirement" for licensing tie back to ones official country of residency?

I have no idea but just throwing it out there. If you are an official resident of France and France requires no license shouldn't you just carry proof of French residency regardless of passport?

Europe is too old and confusing for me. I like it here. Life is simpler.

Yes that is the way it works. Though some countries demand sons form of certification.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by rynegold

What does ICC and RYA stand for? accronymically speaking? ;->

ICC. = International certificate of competency ( for UNECE signatory countries )

RYA. royal yachting association. The uk sailors representative and home of the Yachtmaster training scheme. ( though they are really mad they didn't trade mark the name )
Dave

[laforge24]

Hello guys and thanks for the research, but I thought I read somewhere that france does not take RYA records as legal documents for a french citizen, ICC is more international and to be obtained by french passport holders !!! Now I live in france, but still have a dutch passport ?? you tell me ? going back to holland to get some license
sounds rather thick, going to UK to get RYA where it's not recognised in France even more usefull ??
I was just thinking what would happen if I got my boat insured and something happened and they ask me for a license ?? get my drift ?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by laforge24

Hello guys and thanks for the research, but I thought I read somewhere that france does not take RYA records as legal documents for a french citizen, ICC is more international and to be obtained by french passport holders !!! Now I live in france, but still have a dutch passport ?? you tell me ? going back to holland to get some license
sounds rather thick, going to UK to get RYA where it's not recognised in France even more usefull ??
I was just thinking what would happen if I got my boat insured and something happened and they ask me for a license ?? get my drift ?

If your country does not require a license then in general " they can't ask you for one , except Croatia.

In my opinion if you have any RYA cert. just bring that

Simples

Dave