Questions a Sailor Just Does Not Know!

[Cheechako]

I'm with Mark, get right back on the radio and inform the ship that he has adequate room to pass "on my starboard side, I will maintain heading" (or what ever the situation was.) and if he looks to be traveling too fast for the traffic situation inform him that he may be traveling at an unsafe speed...! You are only required to give him room to maneuver...

[donradcliffe]

The lack of knowledge of the rules on this forum is a bit scary. The ship does 'own'' the channel.

International and US inland navigation rule 9(b)

"A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall
not impede the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only

within a narrow channel or fairway."

See also rule 8(f)

(i) A vessel which, by any of these rules, is required not to

impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel shall,
when required by the circumstances of the case, take early
action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the
other vessel.
(ii) A vessel required not to impede the passage or safe passage
of another vessel is not relieved of this obligation if
approaching the other vessel so as to involve risk of collision
and shall, when taking action, have full regard to the action

which may be required by the rules of this part.

[Cheechako]

I dont believe anywhere it was mentioned that the ships passage was impeded... unless he was planning on being within 20 feet of the edge of the channel!

[Solitude]

I hope you didn't scare the guy off.... He is a new sailor and wants to understand what to do.

He stated he was under full sail at 2knts. I gain steerage at about ½ a knt. Why not just steer out of the way. The motor is only a secondary propulsion device.

Work more on sailing skills.

I don't know how close he was but If its a blind corner call ahead on the radio.

Engine maintenance: You need to make sure your engine works, if you are going to rely on it. Start it early.

As for who’s right or wrong: Its ignorant for the ship to flip him off like that! Just plane stupid!! Yes, unnecessary and stupid!!

Yes always, always get the h*ll out of the way for any ship!

[s/v Beth]

I have worked narrow ship channels in Galveston Bay. Stay on the side, keep your radio tuned to their working channel, and be polite. I have never had any problems, and many of them slow down to minimize their wake as they go by.
As for the OP- I think he sought greener pastures. We can come down kinda heavy sometimes.

[johnar]

ok i read most of the post and will go back and read them all,

First off i was inbound on the st johns and just a few miles from jacksonville so the river is not wide at all and tide was going in that is why i was able to make 2 knots, the ship was coming around a corner and at first it looked to me that he was turning on to another channel that went north, I even remarked to the wife he was outside the channel.

I found out the motor would not start right then when the ship ask me to move.

I fully agree that safty is first then rules of the road, if a big ship is bearing down on me right or wrong i am getting out of the way. I was sailing holding the port side makers all the way and just so happens where i was at when this happen there were rocks on the side of the river i was on and did not have time to cross the river for depth,

I did turn about and was still in the channel when the ship passed, he had all the room he needed. All it really did was scare my wife.

I just did not know what a person should do if they are in a spot dead end the water.

as it tunr out it was a very easy fix on a fuel line but i did not know until after and was able to drop the hook.

To me no matter the size of the ships you first follow the rules of the road then if you come across a boat dead in the water you have to avoid hitting them even if you have right of way.

If this guy just slowed down it would have help me alot and i could have crossed the river and been 30' outside the channel.

well thats about it

Butch

[Solitude]

Originally Posted by johnar

First off i was inbound on the st johns and just a few miles from jacksonville so the river is not wide at all and tide was going in that is why i was able to make 2 knots, the ship was coming around a corner and at first it looked to me that he was turning on to another channel that went north, I even remarked to the wife he was outside the channel.

I found out the motor would not start right then when the ship ask me to move.

If this guy just slowed down it would have help me alot and i could have crossed the river and been 30' outside the channel.

well thats about it

Butch

If I understand correctly

With two knots of current and with no forward propulsion you were in a dangerous situation. Out of control drifting. I would have started the motor prior to entering the channel with as I am guessing no wind? If I couldn’t start it I wouldn’t have entered. I frequently travel through passages here (Lions gate, Second Narrows bridges) very common. They are tight and have 5-6 knts of current and large vessel traffic. I would never attempt to drift through or even sail through.

A vessel of considerable size needs a lot of seaway to slow down. Don’t ever factor them getting out of your way or slowing down into the equation.

[chris_gee]

You were inbound holding the port markers all the way? There is the problem, you have to keep to the starboard side. Secondly there was no escape route to port because of rocks. You could not expect a ship to allow you to cross the channel in front of it, because 1 it is likely to be constrained, by speed and depth, 2 you may have no motor or a disabled one, 3 the wind may die, and you are then out of control. Given your draft do you in fact have to be in the channel at all?

[johnar]

Ok thank you all for the input, I see I am unable to explain what went on without getting answers that flat out say i am stupid, I may not have years of sailing but it also is not my first time down the river.

At this point i give up on this string, Dont get me wrong i can understand I do things wrong at times and that is why i came here to ask, but with the answers given by some I am sorry i even ask.

I knew the other ship has right of way, I knew i had to get out of the way, I did not know the motor would not start, Yes i was under sail but only making 2 knots but have to say at times i was getting wind and making 7 knots, when i came about to try and get out of the way i was pushed even further into the channel.

As for the motor proble I has the fuel tank out right now and it is being cleaned so this dose not happen again.

I'll just write this off as a mishap that i hope to never come across again.

[chris_gee]

I don't see anyone saying you are stupid. You asked what you should have done differently. We learn by experience. A lot of seamanship is prudence - anticipating what might happen and planning in advance. You may not know in advance you will have a motor problem, but depending how wide the channel is, and the depth on the edge your problem would be less if you were on the starboard side, particularly if there was a possibility of a vessel coming around a bend which would be keeping to starboard.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by johnar

To me no matter the size of the ships you first follow the rules of the road then if you come across a boat dead in the water you have to avoid hitting them even if you have right of way.

To be honest I don't think you did anything wrong - I suspect the ship was initially thinking you would try & tack accross the channel in front of him (I am sure he has seen folk do that) - hence the initial radio call, possibly a brusque tone to make very plain he wanted you to keep clear.

The only thing I can think to add is in your radio communications to firmly convey that you understood to keep clear of him and would be staying where you were / hugging the channel edge. (and that you had an engine problem).

Although I do not know your locale, appreciate that sometimes you do approach a shipping channel on the "wrong side". and on a sailing boat, sometimes under sail But as you already mentioned, in your own interests to ensure you keep out of the way of the big boys

[yardpro]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

You have a right to be in a shipping channel. Firstly because you are a ship. Just a bit smaller that normal ships. Secondly its not just for big ships but its a designated area of safe navigation!

I would have got right back on the radio and told the ships captain that he had a problem too!

The dopey ship can't just run someone down because they are constrained by size in a channel.

And the other point: No, you don't run yourself aground to get out of the way of a ship. Thats endangering your own crew.

The best thing to do is to jump on the radio as soon as you realise there’s a difficulty with your engine and you see a ship coming.

if you were so close to the edge he should have been able to get around you.

Stay in the channel... tell the ship to go to hell


Mark

sorry mark, but that answer is totally wrong....
i have grown up in boats (motor) and know tons of commercial captians...

the large shipping vessels have the right of way... period....

i was witness to new $300K grady white that was run over by a tug pushing a VERY large barge. It was at a sandbar party that thousands of people attended. this moron anchored out in the channel and caught a ride in with a friend. he did not want to bring his shiny new boat up close to all the rest and risk it getting scratched...
Well.......the tug began hailing on the radio as soon as he could see the grady.. we all heard it on our radios.. then he began on the horn....

this sandbar runs under the high rise bridge and the grady was about 1/4- 1/2 mile from the bridge. the owner of the grady was telling all his friends that the tug could go F himself.... he wasn't going out to move his boat.. the channel was public and belonged to everyone...

the tug ran over the grady sinking it...

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by yardpro

sorry mark, but that answer is totally wrong....

Gees. Thanks mate. Nice to know I'm totally wrong.

Totally wrong.


Totally.


No chance of there being a tiny little bit of unwrongness about it?

[johnar]

I just can not believe the larger ship can just run another boat over, killing people. sinking a boat. I beleive no matter the size of boat we all have the duty to avoid hitting another boat bottom line.

when a pane is going to land on a runway but they see there is a truck out there working on lights or whatever. so he just telles himself " this is a runway and I am a Plane so i have the right to hit that truck"

lol come on

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by johnar

I

when a pane is going to land on a runway but they see there is a truck out there working on lights or whatever. so he just telles himself " this is a runway and I am a Plane so i have the right to hit that truck"

lol come on

When a plane is going to land on a runway but they see there is a truck out there working on lights or whatever and knows there is no way to land left or right or to throttle up for another pass and he talks to the truck and finds the truck has a broke motor and cannot move, he just tells himself " oh ****, this is not going to be good", then prays more than likely. Then there is some sort of impact, or a near miss, or...............

You are getting too worked up.

Relax.

There are lots of little things that some don't know and are speculating about.

There was room. You made it OK. They made it OK.

Go sailing.