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Old 12-04-2014, 18:02   #46
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Re: Prepping for blue water

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True unless that one person was me. On a passage I always came on deck at least once on every watch, especially at night; if for no other reason than to make sure the person on watch was awake.

That's a common problem and mistake. Often skippers get very very tired. As a result. Not good

Dave


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Old 12-04-2014, 18:02   #47
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

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How do you find stugeon (sp?) works for you Ann. My wife gets queasy 2minutes out of the harbor . Was thinking of trying this.
Ann's busy right now, so I'll answer for her:

We both find Stugeron to be the most effective anti-motion sickness drug that we have found. No serious side effects (slight drowsiness for her, a diuretic for me (big nuisance when wearing foulies!)), and does a good job of suppression.

We take a small dose around 12 hours before departure, another at departure time. This does it for me, she may continue for a day or two if the motion is bad.

Do try it in a non threatening environment the first time... that is, at home or at the dock. A small fraction of users have had more serious side effects.

Cheers,

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Old 12-04-2014, 18:04   #48
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Mycroft,

You will receive all kinds of advice about watch schedules. When we left for Hawaii, our first ocean passage, we were experimenting. As it happens, we experimented with a 6 on 6 off semi-flexible schedule, based on the fact that we could each function pretty well with that minimum, and I could nap during the day to make up what I needed. For us, it worked then, and still works.
I personally like Modified Swedish watchkeeping for both 2 and 3 handed:

1200 - 1800 6 hrs
1800 - 2300 5 hrs
2300 - 0300 4 hrs
0300 - 0600 3 hrs
0600 - 1200 6 hrs
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Old 12-04-2014, 18:05   #49
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Prepping for Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Ann's busy right now, so I'll answer for her:

We both find Stugeron to be the most effective anti-motion sickness drug that we have found. No serious side effects (slight drowsiness for her, a diuretic for me (big nuisance when wearing foulies!)), and does a good job of suppression.

We take a small dose around 12 hours before departure, another at departure time. This does it for me, she may continue for a day or two if the motion is bad.

Do try it in a non threatening environment the first time... that is, at home or at the dock. A small fraction of users have had more serious side effects.

Cheers,

Jim
Thanks Jim. How many mg for you and how many mg for her. Per dose of course.
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Old 12-04-2014, 18:21   #50
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

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Thanks Jim. What How many mg for you and how many mg for her. Per dose of course.
25 mg for each of us. Ann has experimented with using a double dose for the initial intake (as recommended on the package), but does not find it to make any difference.

She has reminded me that at times, well into a voyage when the motion has changed (typically if we have to then sail to windward) she will need to start over again with the meds. She incidentally has a long history (since childhood) of susceptibility to motion sickness, so starts out with a handicap.

Good luck with your wife's situation. Being seasick, seriously seasick, is a horrible experience. Only happened to me once, years ago, but it was a humbling thing, and lead me to be far more sympathetic to those who suffer from it chronically!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 12-04-2014, 18:40   #51
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

Thanks Jim. She isn't to the horrible stage, as of yet anyways, but does get the early signs of mild headache and just feeling icky. Going down below is a no no but unavoidable at times. She comes back up with major vertigo and that's it. Just sits quietly from then on. I am looking forward to trying that. Thanks again.
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Old 12-04-2014, 18:44   #52
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

There's lots of things to try before stugeron. However, Stugeron is available in Mexico, probably the closest source to someone in San Diego. Mycroft's a little far away from the other sources.

After 3 days at sea, I'm okay without meds unless the motion gets jerky. If it's jerky, I can be off the wind and seasick.

As one tries to work with one's body to make it feel better, one will learn many little tricks that may help. It's part of what I learned from the sea's tutelage. There was a lot of trial and error involved for me. PLEASE NOTE; MOST PEOPLE AREN'T AS PRONE TO IT AS i AM. I am not a good nor typical sample for mal de mer.

Ann
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Old 12-04-2014, 19:32   #53
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

Here are some tricks that help me (not that I'm greatly susceptible) and also almost everyone I've been able to persuade to try them.
Basically they're almost all aimed at reducing conflicting sources of information:

1) Either watch the horizon, or if below, close your eyes
(NB: the latter requires 2) and 3) in addition)
2) Immobilise your head (eg find a corner to nestle it into)
3) Get your head (and, for comfort, your body) horizontal
4) Do not go forward of the center of pitch if the heading is upwind
5) If lying down, the floor may be better than a high bunk
6) As a preventive measure: when rough conditions are expected, eat dry, bland, bulky food to partly fill and stabilise the stomach.
7a) SMILING can be a preventative, especially for brief periods eg moving from cockpit to bunk, removing wet gear etc...
7b) (this recommendation is for other people): Unless this would be a breach of trust: Do not discuss safety concerns within the hearing of badly affected sufferers:
If possible without compromising your integrity and reputation, present a cheerful front.

Supporting info:

1) If you can see the horizon, the brain can make some sense of why you are experiencing accelerations, because it has a reference datum to measure the visible motions against. Steering helps further because the person controlling the boat gains added information (and a useful external focus) from guiding the boat over the waves.

2) Because the head is an inverted pendulum; sensitive force transducers in the neck send lateral acceleration information to the brain. This reduced perceived accelerations


3) To disable the ear canal 'spirit level' angular sensors, and (by a different mechanism) the linear acceleration sensors (Google "otolith organs", again reducing perceived accelerations. It has been claimed it also "prevents histamine from reaching the brain, decreasing nausea".

The problem with lying down as a strategy is the time it takes to get below and get undressed. During this time, the 'sufferer' can become very ill indeed. To the extent possible, get undressed where you can see the horizon WELL.
In the cockpit, if possible.

Unaffected crew should act as devoted slaves and body-servants to streamline the whole 'getting horizontal' mission, certainly not get in the friggin' way.
It's not just altruism: Their safety, too, will end up on the table, if seasickness becomes prolonged and savage, to the point where it weakens the overall crew capability.

4) To reduce actual vertical accelerations

5) To reduce actual sideways accelerations

6) Avoid spicy and fatty or highly sweetened or rich food altogether. Avoid diuretic drinks. Hydrate judiciously (preferably with a mild electrolyte), little sips, often.

It's a matter of experimentation: There's a soft thick flaky white cracker biscuit in NZ with little flavour called a "Cornish Wafer" which seems to work for many people.
But couple of my friends eat Watties (unflavoured) rice pudding, straight from the tin, cold, in storms - in any other circumstance they reckon it would make them puke!


7a) It is reputed to suppress the gag reflex, and is supposed to work in other instances of nausea. I suspect it's at least as much a case of a 'fake it till you make it' strategy

7b) Even the toughest cookies are emotionally fragile when seriously seasick.

I once made friends for life of a couple of hard-bitten scientists, whose professional lives are spent in the subantarctic, who were 'dying' in their bunks when their 55 tonne chartered transport (a sailing vessel) was knocked flat in the deep and empty south, out of range of any rescue services.

On my way to the companionway, I made a detour past their bunks and said something like "We apologise for this short interruption to our advertised schedule: normal progress will be resumed as soon as possible".

One of them, normally undemonstrative, immediately burst into tears, threw her arms around my neck and hugged me. I wonder if it tipped the balance for them, some sort of turning point, because they got back to NZ, their boss made a point of tracking me down and thanking me personally.

One theory about conflicting information is that the human brain cannot hold different versions of a model of reality: it has to pick winners, and it cannot do that if there are too many.

A subtheory is that the usual scenario in early protohuman times leading to serious conflicting information from various parts of the body was 'sensory malfunction' arising from accidental poisoning from eating natural toxins. If so, vomiting would be a useful response.

Possibly those lucky few who are not "afflicted" might actually represent a *less* highly evolved slice of humanity?
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Old 12-04-2014, 19:37   #54
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Re: Prepping for blue water

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That's a common problem and mistake. Often skippers get very very tired. As a result. Not good

Dave
Not to worry. Am very aware of the problems resulting from sleep deprivation or exhaustion and not to forget hypothermia.

I didn't stand every watch with the rest of the crew. Usually I would stick my head up the companionway, ask the watch keeper how it was going, maybe do a quick 360 scan and go back to sleep.

Always made sure I got adequate rest. I made several trips where I was the only one on board with significant experience and I considered it my responsibility to stay in good condition, mentally and physically, to make decisions and work the boat. But also, knew that at times some crew needed closer monitoring.
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Old 12-04-2014, 19:42   #55
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
There's lots of things to try before stugeron. However, Stugeron is available in Mexico, probably the closest source to someone in San Diego. Mycroft's a little far away from the other sources.

After 3 days at sea, I'm okay without meds unless the motion gets jerky. If it's jerky, I can be off the wind and seasick.

As one tries to work with one's body to make it feel better, one will learn many little tricks that may help. It's part of what I learned from the sea's tutelage. There was a lot of trial and error involved for me. PLEASE NOTE; MOST PEOPLE AREN'T AS PRONE TO IT AS i AM. I am not a good nor typical sample for mal de mer.

Ann
Thanks Ann
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Old 12-04-2014, 19:45   #56
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

Good info Andrew. Thank You
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Old 12-04-2014, 20:02   #57
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

I often get quite queasy for the first 24 -36 hours offshore but recover after that.

Anyone tried those wristband thingies with the accupressure ball? I was given a set by a friend before my last Coral Sea crossing, but didn't get round to trying them - didn't need it on that run.
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Old 12-04-2014, 20:21   #58
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

I dont get seasick very easily myself but have had lots of different crew on my boat who do - And what seems to be the pattern is that each person responds differently to the different cures out there. Some find the scop patches work. Others find the patches dont work at all but bonine does. Still others like stugeron. etc. etc.

So, my advice is to look at ALL of the advice and try the different meds for yourself. Just because a med is prescription or only available overseas doesnt mean it will be the one that works for YOU. Quite a few people I have had seemed to do well with Bonine which is available over the counter in any drugstore. My wife only does OK with the scopolomine patches. You never know what will work until you try it.
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Old 12-04-2014, 20:24   #59
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
I often get quite queasy for the first 24 -36 hours offshore but recover after that.

Anyone tried those wristband thingies with the accupressure ball? I was given a set by a friend before my last Coral Sea crossing, but didn't get round to trying them - didn't need it on that run.
I'm fine on deck but go below 5 minutes in a nice roll and I have to get the hell out. Vertigo like crazy. I moved up from a 31' to 46' and I almost find it worse below on the bigger boat. I was fine in the 31 which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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Old 12-04-2014, 20:43   #60
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

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I'm fine on deck but go below 5 minutes in a nice roll and I have to get the hell out. Vertigo like crazy. I moved up from a 31' to 46' and I almost find it worse below on the bigger boat. I was fine in the 31 which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I'm a bit like that: almost bullet proof if the boat's small enough.

I'm not much good in multis though, even small ones.

I'm OK in big boats (I think of anything over 40' as big) but take a couple of days sometimes to adjust fully.

My favourite big boats in terms of motion are racing hulls rather than cruising oriented; to me they're like riding a thoroughbred horse rather than a hippo, (and, for that matter, much more similar to the small boats I prefer) but I know that I'm in a minority, even among those who sail on big racing boats, in having this preference.

A mate claims he's strongly adversely affected by the motion of big boats in comparison with small.
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