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Old 12-04-2014, 01:40   #31
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Re: Prepping for blue water

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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
.... I have .... an Edson mega-gallon hand pump....
Obviously you're talking about a 'gallon-a-stroke'

Should be one of these in the Smithsonian, I reckon;

it's the only exception I've met to the old saw about a 'frightened man with a bucket'
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Old 12-04-2014, 06:44   #32
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Re: Prepping for blue water

Lots to see and do in Puget Sound. If you consider the entire Salish Sea there is a lifetime worth. Go north this summer and scope it out. Careful with Juan de Fuca however, winds over 20kts set up short period chop that is just perfect for stopping 40 ft sailboats....wet and slow with Lee shore everywhere. Learn to use the tide and when to just sit and wait.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:47   #33
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Re: Prepping for blue water

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Being closer to shore is always more terrifying and takes more skill. Practice there. Try doing it up north where tides and currents are strong. Weather and visibility poor.
True, but the point of this thread is that Rebel Heart had tons of "closer to shore" experience, but they still were unprepared for the open ocean.

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I would recommend that you and your partner consider crewing on deliveries
Thanks Steve, we will be considering that option.


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Obviously you're talking about a 'gallon-a-stroke'

Should be one of these in the Smithsonian, I reckon
Too true, but she is a 30 year old double-ender.


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Lots to see and do in Puget Sound. If you consider the entire Salish Sea there is a lifetime worth.
Absolutely, definitely a lifetime of exploring hereabouts!
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:13   #34
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Re: Prepping for blue water

The one thing that hasnt been mentioned by me or others in this thread is the effect of sleep schedules etc on a couple offshore. You cant get that with my local sailing recommendations. To me it's the worst part of it all. Adjusting to sleeping some during the day, getting up and down every few hours, sailing at night, etc takes days at sea. The OP's thought of going out a 100 miles and back may be the only way to get this.
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Old 12-04-2014, 11:18   #35
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Re: Prepping for blue water

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The one thing that hasnt been mentioned by me or others in this thread is the effect of sleep schedules etc on a couple offshore. You cant get that with my local sailing recommendations. To me it's the worst part of it all. Adjusting to sleeping some during the day, getting up and down every few hours, sailing at night, etc takes days at sea. The OP's thought of going out a 100 miles and back may be the only way to get this.
Very important point and one of my bigger concerns. I am amazed by couples that are able to make long passages and arrive rested and in good condition.

I made a 4-5 day passage years ago double-handed. Perhaps the fact that the AP had died forcing us to hand steer was the big difference but by the last day we were both so exhausted we had shortened watch to two hours max, which of course exacerbated the problem since two hours off isn't really enough time to get a decent sleep. For passages I go with a minimum of three on board.

With a good self-steering system I guess two can manage but if something breaks I think a two person crew can quickly become exhausted. Exhaustion then can lead to poor decision making, reduced ability to deal with problems and potentially turning a small problem into a big one.
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Old 12-04-2014, 11:42   #36
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Re: Prepping for blue water

Yeah, a 3 person crew allows one person to really sleep and not worry also.
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Old 12-04-2014, 12:56   #37
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

Yes, I would think a working auto-pilot would make a HUGE difference for passages.

One of the things about Zen was that they hove-to every night and he complained about losing progress because of the current. I was scratching my head wondering why he didn't sail all night and sleep during the day. Then I realized that she wasn't doing any sailing at all. So he was basically single-handing it. I wonder if that was the original plan or if her seasickness messed up the original plan.

Without going out there, it would be very difficult for a couple to see how they would fare with 24x7 passagemaking. Heaving-to every night is an option, but it would sure impact progress. IMO, setting an alarm to wake up every 10 minutes for a lookout is not an option.
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Old 12-04-2014, 13:29   #38
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Re: Prepping for blue water

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Yeah, a 3 person crew allows one person to really sleep and not worry also.
True unless that one person was me. On a passage I always came on deck at least once on every watch, especially at night; if for no other reason than to make sure the person on watch was awake.
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Old 12-04-2014, 14:25   #39
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

Sailing with a seasick and utterly demoralised partner is often described as being tougher in almost every way than singlehanding. And more dangerous. And it's easy to see why.

If one were to be brutally efficient, in order to maximise the probability of everyone arriving intact and happily married, one would probably put such a partner under heavy sedation (including anti-nausea), strap them in their bunk and hook them up with intravenous feeding before weighing anchor.

It's more often but not always the female who struggles more with seasickness. One of the really unfair twists is that childbearing often seems to flip a switch. I've seen this go in both directions, but more often from bulletproof to prone. I suppose there might be a psychological component, but it seems to me largely physiological, or perhaps more accurately biochemical.

... whatever the reason, it's a bloody shame, I reckon, and a curse on humanity.
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Old 12-04-2014, 14:47   #40
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

In late summer and early Fall (mid-August to mid-Sept) there are many boats looking for crew to sail from the Puget Sound to San Francisco on the first legs of a trip to Mexico. It is a great way to get offshore experience in some serious waters.
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Old 12-04-2014, 15:00   #41
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

I should perhaps clarify that I reckon the Edson 'gallon a stroke' pump should be in the Smithsonian, not because it's a relic, but because it has timeless virtues. Big ones.
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Old 12-04-2014, 15:12   #42
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

Self steering is a must for offshore sailing short handed. Have made many long passages double handed and solo and arrived refreshed and ready to go ashore because of the self steering. By self steering, don't mean auto pilot with its inherent unreliability of the electronics. A wind driven self steering system either auxiliary rudder or pendulum servo, with its inherent reliability and ease of repair by an average sailor in the remoter possibility that something does go wrong.

Coastal cruising is not nearly as restful because of the need to keep a constant watch. You should have plenty experience of that gunk holing around the Salish Sea. Do as much of it as you can so you'll get familiar with what you need or don't need to be comfortable on the boat. Go out when it's not so beautiful as well as nice. The demands and the ocean are too entirely different environments between nice and nasty. Stay out of marinas in your explorations, they are a money black hole and don't really help you get ready to experience cruising. Of course if your idea of cruising is stopping at the first marina on the left every day, have at it. Get lots of practice anchoring, you'll spend most of your time at anchor and need to have the drill down and equipment that works.

get to know your boat thoroughly. Pull the raw water impeller, change the filters, and bleed the engine just so you'll have the tools and know how to do it when needed. Go to the masthead and inspect all mast fittings, antennas, etc. May surprise you that a few things need to be modified or changed. Definitely do a bottom job yourself and inspect all the fittings, rudder pintles and gudgeons or drop the rudder if it's a spade and inspect especially where the stock passes through the hull. A classic place for crevice corrosion in an SS stock.

It takes a few days to get used to being at sea. The routine of passage making will set in but it's not automatic. Make some three to five day trips without touching land so you can try out what you'll need while at sea. How does the galley work when the boat heels, what equipment do you need, what foods will you want?? Are the berths comfortable at sea. Most of all, track down those leaks that soak your berth or otherwise make life miserable at sea. Fix all those things before you leave. One advantage of leaving from the PNW is you'll likely get a chance to experience some strong winds on the way south. Alameda and Sausalito are great places to take a break to get work done with yards, chandleries and most marine fabricators within easy bicycling distance.

Most of all, enjoy the experience. Don't rush or set schedules that you have to meet. Leave when you like and the weather cooperates. Explore the out of the way anchorages, coves, and byways. Seems like cruisers always seem to crowd together. Resist the temptation to drop your hook on top of someone else's just because they are there.
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Old 12-04-2014, 15:19   #43
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

Mycroft,

You will receive all kinds of advice about watch schedules. When we left for Hawaii, our first ocean passage, we were experimenting. As it happens, we experimented with a 6 on 6 off semi-flexible schedule, based on the fact that we could each function pretty well with that minimum, and I could nap during the day to make up what I needed. For us, it worked then, and still works.

What I didn't mention about that trip was that I was seasick much of the voyage back from Hawaii, for days. Fortunately, not to the point of continuous vomitting, just feeling shaky and miserable. I think taking the meds (Marezine, available OTC) made it milder, but did not control it. As for confidence building, I stood all my watches anyway; I felt proud of that. The good thing about seasickness is that when it's gone, it's over, like childbirth pain. I still get seasick, by the way, jerky motion bothers me most, but people vary in which if any motion they are susceptible to. When it comes time to make an ocean voyage, you will probably have worked out what meds work for you. If not, get back to me, because there are meds available in other countries that work best for me, or check the threads here on seasickness.

Ann
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Old 12-04-2014, 17:50   #44
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Self steering is a must for offshore sailing short handed. Have made many long passages double handed and solo and arrived refreshed and ready to go ashore because of the self steering. By self steering, don't mean auto pilot with its inherent unreliability of the electronics. A wind driven self steering system either auxiliary rudder or pendulum servo, with its inherent reliability and ease of repair by an average sailor in the remoter possibility that something does go wrong.

Coastal cruising is not nearly as restful because of the need to keep a constant watch. You should have plenty experience of that gunk holing around the Salish Sea. Do as much of it as you can so you'll get familiar with what you need or don't need to be comfortable on the boat. Go out when it's not so beautiful as well as nice. The demands and the ocean are too entirely different environments between nice and nasty. Stay out of marinas in your explorations, they are a money black hole and don't really help you get ready to experience cruising. Of course if your idea of cruising is stopping at the first marina on the left every day, have at it. Get lots of practice anchoring, you'll spend most of your time at anchor and need to have the drill down and equipment that works.

get to know your boat thoroughly. Pull the raw water impeller, change the filters, and bleed the engine just so you'll have the tools and know how to do it when needed. Go to the masthead and inspect all mast fittings, antennas, etc. May surprise you that a few things need to be modified or changed. Definitely do a bottom job yourself and inspect all the fittings, rudder pintles and gudgeons or drop the rudder if it's a spade and inspect especially where the stock passes through the hull. A classic place for crevice corrosion in an SS stock.

It takes a few days to get used to being at sea. The routine of passage making will set in but it's not automatic. Make some three to five day trips without touching land so you can try out what you'll need while at sea. How does the galley work when the boat heels, what equipment do you need, what foods will you want?? Are the berths comfortable at sea. Most of all, track down those leaks that soak your berth or otherwise make life miserable at sea. Fix all those things before you leave. One advantage of leaving from the PNW is you'll likely get a chance to experience some strong winds on the way south. Alameda and Sausalito are great places to take a break to get work done with yards, chandleries and most marine fabricators within easy bicycling distance.

Most of all, enjoy the experience. Don't rush or set schedules that you have to meet. Leave when you like and the weather cooperates. Explore the out of the way anchorages, coves, and byways. Seems like cruisers always seem to crowd together. Resist the temptation to drop your hook on top of someone else's just because they are there.
Excellent post and great advice. Thank You.
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Old 12-04-2014, 17:55   #45
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Re: Prepping for Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Mycroft,

You will receive all kinds of advice about watch schedules. When we left for Hawaii, our first ocean passage, we were experimenting. As it happens, we experimented with a 6 on 6 off semi-flexible schedule, based on the fact that we could each function pretty well with that minimum, and I could nap during the day to make up what I needed. For us, it worked then, and still works.

What I didn't mention about that trip was that I was seasick much of the voyage back from Hawaii, for days. Fortunately, not to the point of continuous vomitting, just feeling shaky and miserable. I think taking the meds (Marezine, available OTC) made it milder, but did not control it. As for confidence building, I stood all my watches anyway; I felt proud of that. The good thing about seasickness is that when it's gone, it's over, like childbirth pain. I still get seasick, by the way, jerky motion bothers me most, but people vary in which if any motion they are susceptible to. When it comes time to make an ocean voyage, you will probably have worked out what meds work for you. If not, get back to me, because there are meds available in other countries that work best for me, or check the threads here on seasickness.

Ann
How do you find stugeon (sp?) works for you Ann. My wife gets queasy 2minutes out of the harbor . Was thinking of trying this.
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