Poll: How Young? vs Freedom?

[imagine2frolic]

I would think it should be case by case. Some 15 yr olds are really 6, and some are old souls in a young body........i2f

[amytom]

[QUOTE=Lodesman;330140]You assume all parents have their children's best interests in mind - that is not always the case. Some children need to be protected from their parents; that's why we have certain laws.
QUOTE]


And some laws to protect people from themselves. In the long run you have the government(s) protecting everyone and also telling them right from wrong. Personal responsibility and faith based morals go out the door. Not the way I want to live.

[Endojoe]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

So you would both allow an 8 year old?

I haven't seen any evidence that anyone here would sanction such a thing. The moment you presume your right of choice presides over some one else's, you step onto a very slippery slope. You may have a firm position on just when someone else will be allowed to start making their own choices again, but will the people in positions of power always agree?

[S&S]

It depends on the kid. The worry being the allure of fame which could easily distort the decision making process. It takes some special qualities in a young teen to even think along those lines- qualities which are almost always lacking.

I have 6 kids 10 and under- My 10 yo has been sailing for 10 years. Would I send him anywhere alone? No.

He's growing up pretty fast so in 5 more years? I'd have to see.

[sarafina]

this is a tough one... I voted that parents should decide, because I don't think legislating things like this makes sense... but then again I don't think what Jessica's parents are allowing her to do makes sense either. I am not happy with any of these choices. Tough call.

[Pacey16]

I myself am all for freedom, one of the reasons most of us go cruising but we all know that whenever someone goes solo sailing they are breaking COLREGS by not keeping watch at all times.
What would have happened if the 16 year old girl from Queensland had been killed when she collided with that ship at 2 in the morning. Is she really capable of a solo circumnavigation in safety if she strikes a ship first night out?
Possibly the inquest into her death would point to this as the cause and recommend banning all solo sailing on this basis, we dont want to give the governments any reason for more regulations of our cruising lives. Just my thoughts?

[Cheechako]

This is a tough one. I wanted to say 16 years, but voted for the Psyco eval and readiness option. Sooner or later a young person is going to disappear and then laws will be passed to control us all and spoil it fo rthe ones who are capable. I do not think most kids under 16 are able to make the right choices, but therein lies the problem... there are very mature 16 year olds and there are 20 year olds that aren't. Thus I vote under 16 by independent evaluation only. It is my understanding that kids are required to go to school, (or home school) I'm not sure how they get around that now when the kid sails around the world....

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by Endojoe

I haven't seen any evidence that anyone here would sanction such a thing. The moment you presume your right of choice presides over some one else's, you step onto a very slippery slope. You may have a firm position on just when someone else will be allowed to start making their own choices again, but will the people in positions of power always agree?

Absolutely!

Maybe the age is not going to be the determining factor.. maybe there would be a 'board' set up and anyone wanting to venture off shore would have to be 'interviewed'. Does that sound approproate? Maybe big brother ought to inspect your vesel if you want to leave coastal waters? Maybe only certain vessels... or maybe if the 'board' deemed your trip to be necessary>?

Like I said earlier, I am glad no one has a say in my plans.

[Endojoe]

If you grant a government the right to evaluate 16 year olds, its not a stretch for that to be extended to 20 year olds...then 25 year olds...then maybe they (the government) will start at the other end...evaluate 80 year olds before giving them 'permission' to leave territorial waters, then 75 year olds, after all...if we have to protect the young and innocent, we must protect the old and senile too, right? Hell...ya know what...WE (government) just might need to take the initiative and protect EVERYONE from themselves and make some laws about wearing all sorts of safety devices, and force everyone to have a licence in order to operate [insert piece of equipment here]...much of this road to hell has already been paved, with good intentions and all...at some point, it will become an everything or nothing proposition...

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi Dan,


It seems to me “world opinion and the media” have become the sanctioning body in this debate.. understand your qualifications but why not at least take a position and vote.

I thought I did - "Of legal Majority in all planned ports-of-call."

Originally Posted by Pelagic

You're right Mark.. maybe a Mod could add some more ages

It's your poll Pelagic - we are her but to serve - LOL...

Originally Posted by MarkJ

So you would both allow an 8 year old?

Originally Posted by S&S

It depends on the kid. <snip>

I have 6 kids 10 and under- My 10 yo has been sailing for 10 years. Would I send him anywhere alone? No.

He's growing up pretty fast so in 5 more years? I'd have to see.

As the old joke goes, "We have determined what kind of girl you are. Now we are just working on a price."

Not aimed at you S&S but eveyone has an age in mind. I don't think we'll ever close in on the correct age, but we all agree it's somewhere between newborn and dead...

[Cheechako]

I hear you on that. I dont think the govt should do it at all. (although the government already decides when you can drive a car.. young or old) It should just be a requirement like a fire extinguishers. Let your kid go without it? He/She dies at sea? you may be guilty of manslaughter.... it is interesting, I dont know if you heard about it, but a 13 year old hunter (out with no adult) shot and killed a hiker last year up here in Wa State. He said he thought she was a bear. Does anyone really think a 13 year old should be out making those decisions?? I was hunting alone when I was 13 or 14 occassionally, and I dont believe they should...

[Cheechako]

"Maybe big brother ought to inspect your vessel....." I believe they are already there down in Australia, cant leave before you meet all the requirements. It's exactly for retaining our freedoms that I think something needs to be done about people doing stupid things. All it takes is one unprepared 13 year old to die and one Congressman who wants to make the world perfect and we will all have to meet special requirements just to sail to the Bahamas!

[Bash]

Government regulation concerning this matter already exists. The Colregs state: Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision. (Rule 5)

I don't see any way a sixteen year old solo circumnavigator can maintain a proper look-out.

[Endojoe]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Does anyone really think a 13 year old should be out making those decisions?? I was hunting alone when I was 13 or 14 occassionally, and I dont believe they should...

Spot on. We don't disagree there, I wasn't aware of the case you cited, but I believe the parents should absolutely be held accountable in such a case, and if we can all agree on 18 as being the legal age of "adulthood", then parents should be held accountable until that point. We don't need any more nanny government laws to assert that liability. You let your under 18 kid go hunting or sailing around the world...so be it...your right at a parent...but by god, if they screw up or something happens to them...you should answer for it. If you're confident in your parenting, and you believe your child has been raised well enough to exercise adult judgement and make adult decisions before the rest of society thinks so, and you're willing to bet your freedom on it...your call. I wouldn't, but it's not my or anyone else's place to tell you that you can't.

[speakeasy]

We live increasingly under the logic thumb of proliferating bureaucracy. Decisions are more and more likely to be made by bureaucrats independent of and indifferent to the will of the people or common sense or, for that matter, the constitution or religion. When something bad happens, there is pressure to do something and so a new rule or restriction gets laid down for all of us, not just the bad or stupid. Rule-making to the lowest common denominator? Have you ever looked at the safety decal on the side of a step ladder? There are 8 paragraphs about how not to kill yourself on a ladder. And personally, I'd like to remind everyone to Not stick beans up your nose and do not stick pencils in your ears.

Perhaps it's because of population pressure or the increasing complexity as well. Erich Fromm, a shrink of the Frankfort School who emigrated to the US, wrote several propular books like The Art of Loving & Escape from Freedom said somewhere, that we are heading for a collective society and the choice before us is what kind will it be? He saw the division between Fascism and Socialism, which is what you would expect from someone who left home under the rise of the Nazis.

In the interest of limiting as much as possible, the further intrusion of bureaucratic nonsense rules into my life, I voted for the Parents choice option. Of course, what I think is not likely to be a factor in the decisions on what new rules are to be enforced upon me, for my own good, of course. but prolly