Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Jedi wrote that he would consider it reckless for others to cast off in those conditions without first obtaining the experience that he already had (eg. 20+, 25+, 30+ etc.).

At least that's how I interpreted his post.

Yes I agreed with that part, not with this one:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

...Sailing Jedi in 40 kts is much like sailing a 42' mass production boat in 30 kts. I have sailed a Dehler 42 for a couple of years and it did fine in 30 kts but couldn't be reefed down enough for 35 kts.

If a boat cannot be reefed down enough for 35k winds than it is not a safe boat in 35k winds or over. It seemed to me that it was what Jedi was implying with that statement regarding the Dehler 41cr that by mistake he called 42.

And that is not the case of a Dehler 41 CR that is a good offshore boat and certainly one that can be reefed and sailed safely with 35k winds (and over), providing it has the adequate sails to do that.

Maybe he did not wanted to say that regarding all Dehler 41CR but only that particular one that for some reason had not proper sails to sail in strong winds.

Some racing sails cannot be reefed at all and have to be changed, most main sails come only with two reefs and if you know that you will be using the boat in stronger winds you should demand another reef, but even with only a furled jib the Dehler 41 RC will sail well in 35k winds (and over).

Certainly it was not his boat otherwise he would have installed a 3th reef on the main.

[boatman61]

A lot depends on sea conditions more than the wind strength.. sailing along the coast in a F8-9 offshore wind is a lot different to the same blowing onshore..
Trying to do the same as the former will do your boat no favours.. nor your crew.. also it depends on the location.. knockdowns happen to the unwary in the Canaries as they fly down the coast under full press then come out of the 'Shadow'.. generalization is fine but...

[s/v Jedi]

That Dehler 41 sailed very well; could let go of the wheel to windward and would sail itself for hours. We rented it for holiday trips for years, it was standard equipped and it could not be reefed down enough for 35 kts wind.

The 1-line reefing system for the mainsail was plain stupid and near unusable. The genoa can be furled but at 35 kts the furler is not able to cope and shears locking pins.

Yes it can be changed to cope with heavy weather sailing. Every boat can be modified and improved but we were talking about standard equipment.

That boat needed a mainsail with 3 reefs and an improved reefing system for the main, a heavier duty jib furler and a staysail.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

That Dehler 41 sailed very well; could let go of the wheel to windward and would sail itself for hours. We rented it for holiday trips for years, it was standard equipped and it could not be reefed down enough for 35 kts wind.

The 1-line reefing system for the mainsail was plain stupid and near unusable. The genoa can be furled but at 35 kts the furler is not able to cope and shears locking pins.

Yes it can be changed to cope with heavy weather sailing. Every boat can be modified and improved but we were talking about standard equipment.

That boat needed a mainsail with 3 reefs and an improved reefing system for the main, a heavier duty jib furler and a staysail.

Yes a big genoa is not a sail for heavy weather but if you had a jib or a 110 genoa that would not be a problem. You can chose the sail the boat come with, normally the choice is between those two, or you can have both as I have on mine and use the more adequate to the type of sailing and location.

I know the boat but I am not familiar with the Furler on that particular boat but Dehler used to have good material and was not an inexpensive brand. Did you really have sheared the locking pins or are you imagining that would happen? On other less expensive boat brands sailing with 35K that does not happen on the standard furlers.

Regarding the reefing one line system it was probably one of the first models. I had one on a 2002 boat and another one on a 2007 boat, the difference was remarkable in what regards friction and efficiency.

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes I understand what you mean. You have a big and heavy boat and that only makes that the conditions were to be dangerous to go out of the cockpit will be a lot more rare than if you sailed on a smaller and lighter boat but not that they will not be meet if you try hard

No, understand what I mean regarding danger to go forward and look at this video at min 1.15 and you will understand what I mean

Indeed the fellow is on a much smaller and narrower boat than mine and he's very close to the water in comparison to my boat. What jumps out at me from the video:

You wouldn't catch me solo -- huge safety deficit by making the choice to go solo. Nope.

The seas in that section of video are big, the boat is fast rolling as they pass but he's not got waves washing over him (that's good). We've been in similar sea states, yes, but our boat is bigger and heavier. Horses for courses as others have said.

In his narration he states he's been knocked down twice while he was outside trying to set the drogue. I presume that now he's securing the (previously dropped) mainsail because he's expecting a much bigger blow than he's seeing at present. More to this part of the story than that bit of video is letting us have a look at.

My technique of crawl where you can when things are rough just wouldn't hack it on his boat when tying the sail tight onto the boom for the bigger blow coming. On my boat, a line can be snugged around the bulk of the sail while you're safely sitting atop the cabin--the boom is very close to the cabin top when in the gallows.

I see what you mean regarding danger going forward--unless you're a fit young fellow who thinks you're invincible (he was 17 at the time and all teens think they're invincible) you'd be nuts to be solo sailing those conditions and having to go forward to deal with the sails in big seas on that particular boat.

I do, however, maintain the biggest danger the fellow is facing in the video is his choice to go solo. It's not the sea state.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

A lot depends on sea conditions more than the wind strength.. sailing along the coast in a F8-9 offshore wind is a lot different to the same blowing onshore..
Trying to do the same as the former will do your boat no favours.. nor your crew..

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes a big genoa is not a sail for heavy weather but if you had a jib or a 110 genoa that would not be a problem. You can chose the sail the boat come with, normally the choice is between those two, or you can have both as I have on mine and use the more adequate to the type of sailing and location.



I know the boat but I am not familiar with the Furler on that particular boat but Dehler used to have good material and was not an inexpensive brand. Did you really have sheared the locking pins or are you imagining that would happen? On other less expensive boat brands sailing with 35K that does not happen on the standard furlers.



Regarding the reefing one line system it was probably one of the first models. I had one on a 2002 boat and another one on a 2007 boat, the difference was remarkable in what regards friction and efficiency.

Yes the furler broke under tension of that 35 kts wind. Wasn't a fun experience but luckily it wasn't my sail nor boat.

I also had the AP which was a plastic thinghy on the wheel break on the North Sea, resulting in a 13-hour handsteering passage. That wasn't fun either, but typical for EU boats to have inadequate AP drive systems.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Yes the furler broke under tension of that 35 kts wind. Wasn't a fun experience but luckily it wasn't my sail nor boat.

I also had the AP which was a plastic thinghy on the wheel break on the North Sea, resulting in a 13-hour handsteering passage. That wasn't fun either, but typical for EU boats to have inadequate AP drive systems.

Well, charter boats, what do you expect? Those AP from raymarine were weak ( I broke one too) but they had also more expensive direct rudder AP as option.

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

While crossing the Strait of Bonifacio in late September 2015 on our Oyster 53 sailing yacht, we encountered Force 9.5 sustained (40-50 knot) winds and 20-25 foot (7-8 meter) seas. We expected 38 knots while threading the needle between two storm fronts, but instead... we got a little more.

Please enjoy the ride!

I know some folks will be curious as to what preparations we made and the sails used, so here goes...

Since the seas were going to be behind us or broadside, we had only our main sail up furled to less than 25%, and chose to have the staysail ready but to not use it unless we absolutely needed to do so. Our staysail furling line had issues and it was somewhat doubtful that I'd be able to furl in the sail. The 100hp Yanmar engine was running at 2200rpm (40-50hp) mainly to aid with steering. Mostly, we were surfing.

The Strait of Bonifacio is the passage between Corsica and Sardinia in the Mediterranean Sea.

Ha, that looks like total blast !!!! Thanks for posting.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Three Sisters

Ha, that looks like total blast !!!! Thanks for posting.

i dont know...

this seem similar conditions but more fun and no motoring and it actually goes against wind

https://youtu.be/fPj4x5clrE8

or this

https://youtu.be/oiFiRsDvMss

[Polux]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i dont know...

this seem similar conditions but more fun and no motoring and it actually goes against wind

https://youtu.be/fPj4x5clrE8
....

So that is what you call going upwind. Now I understand why you say Lagoons have a good performance upwind

Look at the banner, min 1.09, to see the direction of the apparent wind.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Keno... remember to factor in the fact that I am a working seaman.. which colours many of my comments due to a different mind set..

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Keno... remember to factor in the fact that I am a working seaman.. which colours many of my comments due to a different mind set..

I know, that's why I took a poke at you.

When we hired a delivery crew, they certainly didn't seem to mind hanging around A Carunia for five days on our dime waiting for the wind to die down to below 15 knots from 20 knots, so that they could continue to motor down the coast of Spain and Portugal back in 2012. Their 1000 mile motoring adventure cost me a new turbo.

I'm not suggesting that you'd do the same thing, but they certainly headed out with a different mindset.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I know, that's why I took a poke at you.

When we hired a delivery crew, they certainly didn't seem to mind hanging around A Carunia for five days on our dime waiting for the wind to die down to 15 knots from 20 knots, so that they could continue to motor down the coast of Spain and Portugal back in 2012. Their 1000 mile motoring adventure cost me a new turbo.

I'm not suggesting that you'd do the same thing, but they certainly headed out with a different mindset.

Well.. if you will outsource what dya expect..

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well.. if you will outsource what dya expect..

The boat was new to us back then, so we didn't know how much fun we were missing

Plus, I hadn't yet discovered the seasickness medicine Meclizine.