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Old 07-02-2016, 21:30   #121
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

When I was (more than once) in winds that strong and seas that big, they didn't have waterproof video cameras and I was busy.

I was always impressed with the first videos of sailing in storms. How they managed to keep the old cameras running is beyond me.

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Old 07-02-2016, 22:06   #122
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Of course. I'm probably wrong and at least 100 forum posters have been in sea's that large and winds that strong. Unfortunately all of you had broken cameras or the dog ate the VCR tape because after viewing hundreds of Youtube videos I've never seen one with a small boat in seas such as those.
Maybe, they had more important things on their minds at the time? Like survival? I just happened to have the GoPro mounted right on front of me and thought to push the button during the gale.

Seems to me that in a Force 10 or Force 11 situation, more important things would have my attention, the GoPro would be rather low on my list of priorities. IMHO.
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Old 07-02-2016, 22:29   #123
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Well, judging by the smile/smirk(?) on your face at the beginning of the video, it didn't seem like you were all that disappointed. Hopefully you, and more importantly Mrs. Mac, were still smiling at the end..
Setting out that day we expected the 38 knots that was forecast. We had been out in those conditions a number of times including the two days prior, and had lots of confidence in the boat and our abilities. When we found ourselves in 40-50 knots we were very focused, it wasn't all fun and games... but we weren't worried or scared.
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Old 07-02-2016, 22:50   #124
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sea View Post
Thanks Muckle Flugga, Dockhead, and Ken for affirming what I hope to argue successfully with the Bermuda Newport Race committee. My boat is very similar to all three of yours and is rigged in the same way. That race is extremely safety conscious, which is a very good thing, but I'm certainly hoping for an exception to the "must carry storm jib and storm trysail" rule. I hate to think of buying two sails for a 5-day race, and then removing them from the boat to liberate stowage space for more useful equipment.
I have a never used trisail if you are told to get one. It is from a past Bermuda race.
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Old 07-02-2016, 22:52   #125
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
I know it's just semantics and said wrong on this forum all the time, but you're in a gale, not a storm.
Well it always used to be said, that if it was a Force 6 gale, then it was a yacht 'storm'.
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Old 07-02-2016, 23:02   #126
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Of course. I'm probably wrong and at least 100 forum posters have been in sea's that large and winds that strong. Unfortunately all of you had broken cameras or the dog ate the VCR tape because after viewing hundreds of Youtube videos I've never seen one with a small boat in seas such as those.


Yeah. Youtube videos. Why don't you read the post immediately above yours quoted here. We didn't have waterproof video cameras on board back in '89, and frankly in a small craft in those kinds of condintions filming is the last damn thing on your mind. But then I suppose you get your reality through youtube, mainly. So for you, if it doesn't appear on Youtube, it doesn't exist, eh? How many giant freak waves have you seen on youtube? And yet it is now accepted, by satellite radar altimetry, that they are surprisingly common. Even really severe (let alone "phenomenal") conditions filmed from big ships are very rare indeed on internet media. And yet there are thousands more such vessels in weather like that and worse, perforce, every year.

And the video of the F9 in the North sea, (two forces less than the one I described which was gusting well into hurricane strength, and into the current) showed a video taken from the perspective of a bridge of a vessel motoring into the severe gale/storm. This will shorten the effective wavelength felt by the vessel and increase the relative speed of the breaking tops. But a great deal is about perspective. If you see my two videos I posted earlier (and actually read what I had to say about them) you would see that the former shows a sea not ver much dissimilar in height, but seemingly much higher, this is to do with a couple of things, one of which was that I was a couple rungs up the mast, with good perspective across the extensive afterdeck, providing excellent perspective on the waves. If you shoot from a low angle (almost always the case on a sailing vessel) your camera will generally meet the angle of the wave you are on, dramatically reducing the apparent height of that wave. Big storm waves may be 300 meters or more in wavelength, and propagate at greater than 30 knots, at 300 meters on camera even a 20 meter wave doesn't look like much, particularly as you will be viewing it from a similar height and with no advantage of stereoscopic perspective, on the descent it forms a horizon and so cannot be compared to anything, and by the time you are on its slope your camera angle is along its slope, further reducing the apparent height.

Your bland "gee I didn't see it on Youtube" attitude is both dismissive, verging on the offensive (you are suggesting I am lying?) and frankly shows me simply that you personally have not experienced seas or conditions like that, which is perfectly obvious.
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Old 07-02-2016, 23:05   #127
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Maybe, they had more important things on their minds at the time? Like survival? I just happened to have the GoPro mounted right on front of me and thought to push the button during the gale.

Seems to me that in a Force 10 or Force 11 situation, more important things would have my attention, the GoPro would be rather low on my list of priorities. IMHO.
Absolutely. When I have been in survival conditions grabbing a camera was the last thing on my mind. Also, most of those occasions occurred prior to the early 2000s, as weather data and warning systems, as well as forecasting at sea, was a lot harder to come by. Weatherfax by SSB is what we had to go on as that Nor' Easter hit back in '89. We got the SSB weatherfax warning around 5 hours before it hit. No chance of escaping that monster. I remember the skipper and Navigator looking serious, like I had never seen them do through plenty of adventures, and asking me if I'd be ok in "Serious" weather. I looked at the heat printed roll and the fuzzy image it displayed looked like a blown up fingerprint, there were so many isobars… and said "Of course!" even though I didn't feel much like it...
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Old 07-02-2016, 23:44   #128
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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Originally Posted by Ribbit View Post
Well it always used to be said, that if it was a Force 6 gale, then it was a yacht 'storm'.
No such thing.
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Old 08-02-2016, 00:35   #129
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

Kenomac you lucky hard working couple are having fun.That yacht of yours moves like a big ship! Lovely I could almost feel the wind in my face and the spray against my cheek .I can smell the sea from where I am sitting as there 's a 60 km wind blowing in from the SE at Cape of Good hope salting up the lounge windows but the couch is not moving !!!
Love it lets have some more vids .
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Old 08-02-2016, 00:59   #130
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

Nice video Ken!and keep pushing that "rec" button on your gopro!
I think Oyster ought to pay you for your video,you cannot possible make a better ad for a yacht than a vid like yours IMHO.




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Old 08-02-2016, 02:29   #131
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
. . .
And the video of the F9 in the North sea, (two forces less than the one I described which was gusting well into hurricane strength, and into the current) showed a video taken from the perspective of a bridge of a vessel motoring into the severe gale/storm. This will shorten the effective wavelength felt by the vessel and increase the relative speed of the breaking tops. But a great deal is about perspective. If you see my two videos I posted earlier (and actually read what I had to say about them) you would see that the former shows a sea not ver much dissimilar in height, but seemingly much higher, this is to do with a couple of things, one of which was that I was a couple rungs up the mast, with good perspective across the extensive afterdeck, providing excellent perspective on the waves. If you shoot from a low angle (almost always the case on a sailing vessel) your camera will generally meet the angle of the wave you are on, dramatically reducing the apparent height of that wave. Big storm waves may be 300 meters or more in wavelength, and propagate at greater than 30 knots, at 300 meters on camera even a 20 meter wave doesn't look like much, particularly as you will be viewing it from a similar height and with no advantage of stereoscopic perspective, on the descent it forms a horizon and so cannot be compared to anything, and by the time you are on its slope your camera angle is along its slope, further reducing the apparent height. .
All correct; the voice of experience.

You really can't photograph big ocean conditions; you have to experience them.

Someone above made an intelligent comment -- look at the Met Office photos of sea conditions in the Beaufort Scale article (or here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale). You can't see anything about height from the photos, and experienced people don't look for height -- they look for streaks (that's how you know you've reached F8), and shape of the crests. Not height, which is not apparent.

It takes thousands of miles of fetch to create the kind of waves Muckle is talking about, so Ken did not experience them in the Med, where they don't occur (or in the Baltic). The waves Ken experienced will have been quite a bit lower, but that's not to say that they were easier -- it's the shape and steepness that will get you, not the height.

In the Baltic (and in the Med) I was always amazed that the sea state always seemed to be about two forces less than what you would expect from the wind speed. I've experienced 50 knots in the Aegean with the Meltemi blowing old boots, and an almost flat sea. But it's not necessarily a blessing, depending on the point of sail, because in those waters the waves may be shorter period and steeper. In my experience, the point at which it becomes unfeasible to go upwind occurs sooner in the Med and Baltic, than in the Atlantic. I have a friend who has been around the world three times, and has done the Southern Ocean and the Horn, Greenland, and Iceland, etc., much of it racing double handed, and the only time he's ever been rolled was in the Med, and in relatively short waves.

The North Sea is a world all of its own, as Muckle and others can tell you, because the sea builds up over a 3000 mile fetch and then gets forced into a narrowing and very shallow end, which causes it to rise up. It's like Biscay on steroids -- same effect, but more so.

The other place where the sea conditions can be horrific, much worse than normal ocean conditions, is of course the Gulf Stream and Hatteras. I have not experienced what Muckle went though there, but I've heard a few tales.
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Old 08-02-2016, 02:32   #132
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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No such thing.
He's joking. Around here, we call a F7 a "yachtsman's gale". Meant to be funny.
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Old 08-02-2016, 04:53   #133
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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He's joking. Around here, we call a F7 a "yachtsman's gale". Meant to be funny.
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:34   #134
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
Your bland "gee I didn't see it on Youtube" attitude is both dismissive, verging on the offensive (you are suggesting I am lying?) and frankly shows me simply that you personally have not experienced seas or conditions like that, which is perfectly obvious.
No, I haven't been in conditions even close to that. Mine were more like the two video's you posted earlier. And I don't think your lying, just that our vision of what conditions are like and reality can be totally different.
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:50   #135
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Re: Oyster Yacht in Storm Video

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He's joking. Around here, we call a F7 a "yachtsman's gale". Meant to be funny.
Haaa, or time to take the 1 reef ,,..
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