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Muckle Flugga · 07-02-2016, 02:52

I agree with those saying it is difficult to estimate the height of a set, and even more difficult to film it. A lot of the reason for this is that the camera has few reference points to judge the height of the wave, and is a single point not a stereoscope like the eyes, so cannot accurately guage scale. Here is one of the few videos I have ever taken that comes close to giving an idea of the sea state. It was shot while ocean racing down the West coast of the Americas around 10 years ago. Apologies for poor quality but digital cameras weren't so great back then. I estimate the upper third of this set to have been averaging 7 to 8 meters or so. What aids in this video is the comparison with the adult figures at the helm and in the cockpit.

Muckle Flugga · 07-02-2016, 03:48

So it seems that camera angle can have an effect. While perhaps fairly exciting for just sailing reasons this clip I shot of hard three sail reaching (craft I was working aboard, not my own) in around 48 knots last year in the Gulf Stream significantly flattens out the 5 to 6 meter sea (itself rather flattened for that sustained blow, up to high 50s gusting mid 60s, since wind and 3 knot current were in accord, according to plan) as the boat rides up and down it, and little exists for comparison aside from the hull itself and that only useful if a wave actually breaking across it, since in other cases the vessel is riding over it or it is passing through. In this case the freeboard was around 2.8m as a 30 meter vessel.

Kenomac · 07-02-2016, 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L

The original post says they were motoring, so they may have been under canvassed or not balanced.

We had problems with the staysail furling line. It was badly chaffed and missing part of the outer cover where it passed through a block. It got stuck two days before and going into this mess I didn't want to chance using it. I had struck a new line to the furling drum as a precaution, but the line was cheap and couldn't be trusted.

So we could deploy the sail in order to get out of a leeward shore jam, but it would have been possibly very difficult to take in the sail.

Kenomac · 07-02-2016, 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

Ken, if you had had time to set a storm jib or storm trysail, do you think it would have been of any advantage?

The eight to nine hour passage went fine and was without incident or damage to us or the boat, so I'd have to conclude the only change I would have made, knowing the outcome, would be to wear a lightweight wetsuit under my outer jacket in order to stay warm.

Kenomac · 07-02-2016, 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

Great Vid, mate, and DID like the music

(What was it by the way?) Just one thing: a little surprised to see the bimini up in that, and perhaps more surprised to see it doing so well!

We'd spent the prior day running down the coast of Corsica in 35-40 knot winds behind us under bare poles with the Bimini up, so going into this, we really just expected the same conditions. I was thinking more about keeping the rain off my head than the practicality of keeping it up.

Next time, it will come down as a precaution, but as you can see... it seems to do just fine. The Bimini and sprayhood are made from Weathermax material by Dolphin Sails.

Rustic Charm · 07-02-2016, 04:37

Great vid Kenomac. Not so sure about the music

but kept my attention with the conditions. It looks like you have a nice boat too.

Fiveslide · 07-02-2016, 04:38

I've been in what I thought were impressive seas. Spent hours trying to get a good picture but never could.

There is a difference in perception between videos and the human eye. I think I've a more scientific way to prove those differences. We used to make videos of ourselves doing hill climbs on dirtbikes. Sometimes it looked easy on video.

Find any video of a hill climb that makes you think you could climb that hill on a bike. Then go to the bottom of that hill and see what you think. That is the difference in perception.

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**Dockhead** · 07-02-2016, 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The eight to nine hour passage went fine and was without incident or damage to us or the boat, so I'd have to conclude the only change I would have made, knowing the outcome, would be to wear a lightweight wetsuit under my outer jacket in order to stay warm.

As discussed above, you don't need storm sails on that boat! Just get your staysail gear in order, and you've got everything you need.

rourkeh · 07-02-2016, 05:50

Those are 20'-25' seas?? Not in that video.

Dr. Sea · 07-02-2016, 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

Ken, if you had had time to set a storm jib or storm trysail, do you think it would have been of any advantage?

Thanks Muckle Flugga, Dockhead, and Ken for affirming what I hope to argue successfully with the Bermuda Newport Race committee. My boat is very similar to all three of yours and is rigged in the same way. That race is extremely safety conscious, which is a very good thing, but I'm certainly hoping for an exception to the "must carry storm jib and storm trysail" rule. I hate to think of buying two sails for a 5-day race, and then removing them from the boat to liberate stowage space for more useful equipment.

Prairie Chicken · 07-02-2016, 06:27

Big seas & strong winds. No debate there.

I was a bit surprised to see the bimini up too but it seemed to be handling the conditions pretty well. I was also impressed with how smooth the ride was.

I thought the vid was well done--captured the scene, included a person (which helps maintain interest), & had some music with an appropriate tempo to make watching it fun.

Shout out to Pam--lest anyone forget, it's nice to have a capable & supportive mate! Ken's one of the lucky ones. How many wives would do this on their vacation?

Boatie, Weavis put me on to the SJCAM. You might check it out. It's a Go-Pro take-off, takes arguably as good images as Go-Pro, comes with all the same gear including a waterproof housing, & cost me $120 CAD last year--or about a third of what a Go-Pro costs. That would be my choice for wet work because I just cringe at the idea of subjecting an expensive camera to salt water (designed for it or not).

IdoraKeeper · 07-02-2016, 06:45

Oh! the Oyster envy! Oh the humanity! Lovely boat....not so lovely wx. Seems Men's wife is like mine..likes it best when action is afoot.��

Matt Johnson · 07-02-2016, 07:09

What type of weak Bimini frame/fabric does everyone have if they have to put it away in those conditions? Ours was simple Sunbrella and 1" stainless and we never had issues in higher winds than listed here. Being a large center cockpit boat, I can't see the added windage as much of an issue until a lot stronger wind.

Very nice boat Ken.... And great video too. Thanks for posting.

Matt

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Kenomac · 07-02-2016, 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

Thanks Muckle Flugga, Dockhead, and Ken for affirming what I hope to argue successfully with the Bermuda Newport Race committee. My boat is very similar to all three of yours and is rigged in the same way. That race is extremely safety conscious, which is a very good thing, but I'm certainly hoping for an exception to the "must carry storm jib and storm trysail" rule. I hate to think of buying two sails for a 5-day race, and then removing them from the boat to liberate stowage space for more useful equipment.

Back in October I called Dolphin sails to inquire about purchasing a storm staysail along with the new main sail we ordered. Their reply was basically the same as what Dockhead wrote. Not needed because the staysail we already had was overbuilt for storm use and the main can be furled in such a way as to act as a storm tri sail.