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Old 22-06-2011, 17:07   #16
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

It does take discipline to have all that info at your fingertips. There are times when you've got some breathing room to divert your attention some. High traffic areas, no way, only what you need to get through safely. I'm out cruising to have fun though, so if an activity does not compromise safety, I'll do it. It's a slippery slope but I can't relate to a commercial mate going below in a traffic area. That's almost like making a conscious decision to go to sleep at the wheel of your car.

John, are the extension cables pretty easy to find? I'd like to have some for my IC-718

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Old 22-06-2011, 17:13   #17
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

in a harbor --esp a busy one with real ships and such going on 24/7/365,one needs no electronix assist for locating ships-- you are under them. they know you are there -- and dont like it as you are as a sports car is to a big rig transporter.eyeballs are safest and easiest to use of all the location devices known to man or gods.
lost angeles harbor was always a gas to sail in----busy and interesting. always something to look out for. ais-- will kill ye there as yer not looking at traffic. htere is a right side and a left side of the street- and a tad of middle-- most dangerous thing in lost angeles harbor was the idiota out for a weekend of rentedboatosis...... and some stinkpotters.... was interesting and fun to negotiate.
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Old 22-06-2011, 17:24   #18
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

This accident happened on a clear sunny afternoon on a busy section of the delaware where heavy comerical traffic is common The mate was below? He should be held accountable
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Old 22-06-2011, 17:37   #19
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

Things may get worse before they get better.

All the old bastards here on CF, myself included..., ok, and bastlings so we can include zeehag, got sailing before the IT revolution.
We see nav. aids as just that... AIDS. There to assist, not take over completely.

There will be a whole generation coming through, who use their Iphone apps to walk to the corner store for a loaf of bread so they don't have to memorize the route, and to make the shopping list. They'll have the same 'culture' when sailing.

We're either going to see some nasty stuff until they get some sailing smarts, or more likely, have to keep our own eyes wide open until technology catches up to save them, and us, from themselves.

I'm sure the time will come when auto pilot will be a full blown auto captain, and an owner will just be the guy who pours the drinks and pays the bills.
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Old 22-06-2011, 17:41   #20
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

Reference the discussion on AIS. Geez you can't keep up with these posts.

Except, almost everything Bill complains about AIS is applicable to radar.

"it is not synoptic". Radar is not synoptic as it may not show targets behind the leading edge of a rain shower that AIS might display. Radar does not show targets behind a point of land, that AIS might display. Even a satellite image is not synoptic as it can be partially obscured by clouds. As a former weather forecaster, I know synoptic is rarely achieved even on weather charts. Only the Bible has achieved true synopsis.

"inexperience navigator to become mesmerized". What is more mesmerizing than a radar display. Isn't that why we call radar operators "Scope Dopes"?

Bill, do you plan to remove your radar before your next cruise?

AIS is different than other electronic navigation aids and it is not a replacement for any of them, but is not the source of all evil in navigation.


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Old 22-06-2011, 17:47   #21
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

that auto stuff cant react nor respond to an emergent situation. you need to see what is going on and ignore the bs electronix in places that require same. how ye gonna do that in the "it age" lLOL--- get eaten by a big ship???? come on-yer eyes are for using and the electronix arent even needed for ANYTHING in htese situations--they are distractions in these cases. should never have a change in that unless there is an anti magnet to force the intersecting ships and boats from hitting each other- but that wont work either, because.....in a tight and busy harbor, ye do NOT need to even turn the distractors on until you are in a place where in they will do some good . trust me-- ye do not need to use em for backup in many harbors.
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Old 22-06-2011, 18:02   #22
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

John,

Sorry, but I beg to differ re: radar.

Radar IS synoptic, provided that it's properly fitted, adjusted, and interpreted.

My radar (Furuno 1832) picks up rowboats, buoys, lobster pots, crab pots. It is one of the most valuable navigation tools available -- far, far, far more useful than AIS.

We have navigated safely all the way down the Delaware River, Delaware Bay, and up the Jersey coast in very thick fog. And, many times in Maine. Conditions where you'd be mad to move without radar.

I really don't care about what's over the horizon (though my radar can see a ways over the horizon and can see storms WAY over the horizon). I care about where I am and what's coming at me close up and what I can hit. The combination of GPS and radar and fathometer make an extremely powerful navigation package, when added to the venerable Mark I Eyeball -- the best navigation tool of all.

Kettlewell's point about night vision is critical. Obviously, those yo-yo's on the cat hadn't a clue. It takes more than 30 minutes to restore full night vision after you've been exposed to a quantity of light, whatever the color. And, without night vision, the Mark I eyeball is greatly compromised.

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Old 22-06-2011, 18:37   #23
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

Bill,
Didn't say radar was less useful than AIS, just said it is not completely synoptic. Granted radar is more synoptic than AIS, but it is not as synoptic as radar and AIS.
The issue of night vision is just as applicable to radar as it is to AIS or any electronic display device.
I'm not as concerned about night vision as the everyone else. That may be because I have Mark II eyeballs (at least that's what the product code stamp on my ass says). Maybe you guys should look into a similar upgrade.

John
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Old 22-06-2011, 18:47   #24
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

If memory serves, wasn't eight-year-old Anthony DeWeese of San Diego killed by a Coast Guard coxswain distracted by a cell phone while driving a patrol boat at high speed through holiday parade spectator boats?

Whereas the ten NASA rocket scientists in Maryland who capsized the Venture 22 perhaps used more old-fashioned distractors -- too many people, too much partying, and good old gravity.
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Old 22-06-2011, 18:50   #25
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

Quote:
We have navigated safely all the way down the Delaware River, Delaware Bay, and up the Jersey coast in very thick fog. And, many times in Maine. Conditions where you'd be mad to move without radar.
Done it many times without radar. I lived in Maine for several years and didn't have radar--you get used to it.
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Old 22-06-2011, 18:56   #26
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

didnt sail with radar until this year-- that is over 50 yrs of it..lol.. used it one time to see some one thing and turned it back off.. rofl. in a busy port or inland waterway--i think not--all is within eyesight.
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Old 22-06-2011, 18:58   #27
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

IMO, all of this discussion (including mine) of electronic distractions is off the point. The original issue posted by Bill highlighted what was likely a criminally negligent operator, not a problem of distraction. This operator would have likely been distracted by a firefly as much as a cell phone. The cell phone was just the most accessible distraction.

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Old 22-06-2011, 19:01   #28
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

Some of the closest calls I've had in the fog were when I had radar on another boat. I would have my head buried in the radar display watching targets and I wasn't paying attention to other clues like sounds around me. Yep, I was distracted by the electronics. Remember just recently the Block Island ferry managed to collide with a Coast Guard boat in the fog, and of course they both had all electronics going.
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Old 22-06-2011, 19:29   #29
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

Your experience may vary, but once I get more than 20 miles offshore, over 90% of everything I encounter is broadcasting an AIS signal, and the frequency goes up the further I go out. The AIS really reduces my stress level, because it separates the targets into problems and non-problems, then gives early and accurate information on the problem vessels. It also allows me to call the problem vessels by name if need be, which has raised their reply rate from near zero to near 100%.
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Old 23-06-2011, 06:32   #30
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Re: On Watch: Stay Off the Cell Phone & Computer

20 miles offshore and the other vessels are so rare and few that they really aren't much of a problem. I personally do not feel much stress from other vessels when that far out. You can ignore about 99.9% of them and your paths will never meet. You can see them when they are on the horizon, many miles away, so you have plenty of time. I can see that it might be nice to know who they are so you can chat on the VHF if you want to, but other than that I'm not sure what AIS gives you that you need offshore, and I'm afraid you might have that false sense of security that "everyone" is using AIS.
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