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Jace · 27-08-2009, 21:26

Then, unbeknownst to me, he has changed his view. Einstein, however, did not. He believed in God.

But it doesn't matter who does, or who doesn't. What matters to me is the people that say, If you believe in God, your an idiot, or delusional, or some such denigrating wordage. It is the intellectually bankrupt Darwinian, such as Richard Dawkins, that seems to me to use demeaning language toward those with whom he disagrees, rather than simply saying, I think you're wrong and here's why.

For someone to say, It's "scary" for someone to believe in Intelligent Design, is, sorry, small minded with regard to their point.

You want scary? More people have been murdered in the name of atheism in the 20th century alone than in all of previous world history combined! Christianity, the inquisition, witch burnings, the Crusades don't even come close to the Darwinian atheists record for mass annihilation of mankind. Let's talk scary.

Gahndi, Mother Theresa, and John F. Kennedy all believed in a Holy Creator. Hitler, Stalin, and Mengele were all atheists and believed in Darwinian Evolution. Now tell me ... who should we be afraid of, theists or atheists?

**sneuman** · 28-08-2009, 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

Then, unbeknownst to me, he has changed his view. Einstein, however, did not. He believed in God.

But it doesn't matter who does, or who doesn't. What matters to me is the people that say, If you believe in God, your an idiot, or delusional, or some such denigrating wordage. It is the intellectually bankrupt Darwinian, such as Richard Dawkins, that seems to me to use demeaning language toward those with whom he disagrees, rather than simply saying, I think you're wrong and here's why.

For someone to say, It's "scary" for someone to believe in Intelligent Design, is, sorry, small minded with regard to their point.

You want scary? More people have been murdered in the name of atheism in the 20th century alone than in all of previous world history combined! Christianity, the inquisition, witch burnings, the Crusades don't even come close to the Darwinian atheists record for mass annihilation of mankind. Let's talk scary.

Gahndi, Mother Theresa, and John F. Kennedy all believed in a Holy Creator. Hitler, Stalin, and Mengele were all atheists and believed in Darwinian Evolution. Now tell me ... who should we be afraid of, theists or atheists?

Einstein made it clear that he believed in the God of Spinoza -- the idea that God is a word for a collection of physical laws. He did not believe in the Christian God. This is well documented:

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)

**sneuman** · 28-08-2009, 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

Not to be a smartass, but ...

Hey conachair, you said of people like me, "That's just scarey! (sic)."

I'm a Christian, I think man-made global warming is a Leftist hoax, and being a proponent of Intelligent design, I believe people are the same now as from the beginning of time.

As far as Intelligent design goes, other proponents of ID are Francis Crick, mapper or the DNA and Nobel Prize winner for scientific achievement, Shephen Hawking, theoretical physicist, cosmologist, and expert on quantum gravity - also a proponent of ID, and neither of these men are Christians. They're just smart! Francis Crick says that Neo-Darwinian Evolution is idiotic.

So, from me, Stephen, and Francis, we would just like to tell you ... BOO!

Francis Crick is not a proponent of ID. He is an avowed Christian and has acknowleged a supreme being as the "prime mover." This is not the same thing at all as advocating so-called Intelligent Design.

**sneuman** · 28-08-2009, 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

Then, unbeknownst to me, he has changed his view. Einstein, however, did not. He believed in God.

But it doesn't matter who does, or who doesn't. What matters to me is the people that say, If you believe in God, your an idiot, or delusional, or some such denigrating wordage. It is the intellectually bankrupt Darwinian, such as Richard Dawkins, that seems to me to use demeaning language toward those with whom he disagrees, rather than simply saying, I think you're wrong and here's why.

For someone to say, It's "scary" for someone to believe in Intelligent Design, is, sorry, small minded with regard to their point.

You want scary? More people have been murdered in the name of atheism in the 20th century alone than in all of previous world history combined! Christianity, the inquisition, witch burnings, the Crusades don't even come close to the Darwinian atheists record for mass annihilation of mankind. Let's talk scary.

Gahndi, Mother Theresa, and John F. Kennedy all believed in a Holy Creator. Hitler, Stalin, and Mengele were all atheists and believed in Darwinian Evolution. Now tell me ... who should we be afraid of, theists or atheists?

One last thing: Hitler was raised a Roman Catholic, said in Mein Kampf he was doing God's work. To wit:

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2

Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

-- Some have argued that he later lost his faith. Even if that's true, what of Germany, arguably the most Christian nation in Europe, that blindly followed him?

**GordMay** · 28-08-2009, 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

... I'm a Christian, I think man-made global warming is a Leftist hoax, and being a proponent of Intelligent design, I believe people are the same now as from the beginning of time.
As far as Intelligent design goes, other proponents of ID are Francis Crick, mapper or the DNA and Nobel Prize winner for scientific achievement, Shephen Hawking, theoretical physicist, cosmologist, and expert on quantum gravity - also a proponent of ID, and neither of these men are Christians. They're just smart! Francis Crick says that Neo-Darwinian Evolution is idiotic ...

Whilst we all have the right to believe (and even to proselytize on behalf of that belief) anything we choose; intelligent people don’t get to choose their facts. I respectfully submit that, at least some of your facts, are wrong.

This isn't a fitting forum to discuss our beliefs.

For example:

The idea of a mechanism for the evolution of life by natural selection is opposed by some who fear that it undermines belief in creation of life by divine intervention. The two beliefs (creation & evolution) need not be mutually exclusive. Evolution by natural selection could have been the mechanism by which a Devine Creator intervened.

Frances Crick once joked, "Christianity may be OK between consenting adults in private, but should not be taught to young children." Crick felt that it was important that evolution by natural selection be taught in public schools, and that it was regrettable that English schools had compulsory religious instruction. Crick felt that a new scientific world view was rapidly being established, and predicted that once the detailed workings of the brain were eventually revealed, erroneous Christian concepts about the nature of humans and the world would no longer be tenable; traditional conceptions of the "soul" would be replaced by a new understanding of the physical basis of mind. He was sceptical of organized religion, referring to himself as a sceptic and an agnostic with "a strong inclination towards atheism".

Stephen Hawking says that we have entered a new phase of evolution. "At first, evolution proceeded by natural selection, from random mutations. This Darwinian phase, lasted about three and a half billion years, and produced us, beings who developed language, to exchange information."

But what distinguishes us from our cave man ancestors is the knowledge that we have accumulated over the last ten thousand years, and particularly, Hawking points out, over the last three hundred.

"I think it is legitimate to take a broader view, and include externally transmitted information, as well as DNA, in the evolution of the human race," Hawking said.

➥ Stephen Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution"

It would be difficult, but possible, to agree that your conclusions are correct, in spite of your factual errors.

**FrankZ** · 28-08-2009, 05:39

It would be appreciated if this thread were to move back on topic. We don't do religion or politics here.

Christian Van H · 28-08-2009, 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

For someone to say, It's "scary" for someone to believe in Intelligent Design, is, sorry, small minded with regard to their point.

You want scary? More people have been murdered in the name of atheism in the 20th century alone than in all of previous world history combined!

I'm sorry to tell you Jace, but knowing that there are people out there in the world, when presented with the facts, the fossils, and the science of evolution that still believe that all life on Earth is less than 10,000 years old does SCARE THE HELL OUT OF ME TOO.

Something else that should scare us all is any religion that prevents humans from the use of birth control.

Just my humble opinion, but you best believe I'm entitled to it...

**Tellie** · 28-08-2009, 05:48

This isn't a fitting forum to discuss our beliefs.

For example:

Gord, ya gotta admit that's a funny line.

conachair · 28-08-2009, 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

For someone to say, It's "scary" for someone to believe in Intelligent Design, is, sorry, small minded with regard to their point.

You should read the posts with more care. The scarey bit was not intelligent design but 31% of people asked believed that humans and other animals had existed in their present form since the beginning of time. And again I find that scarey, that people will blindly believe what they are told and not size up all the alternative possibilities. But enough, the only result of a discussion like this on a forum is a massive bun fight.