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Old 30-05-2014, 11:25   #46
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

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If you've even been in the Oakland estuary when all the stinkboaters return from the Fleet Week parade of ships, you'd understand the need for the steadying effect of a hoisted main when motoring. That's the nearest I've been to puking on my boat.
...
Any chance they'll make the estuary a no-wake zone?

Wakes affect both sailboats and motorboats. I've been waked hard enough for water to come on the decks. It isn't uncommon for me to make sudden maneuvers to reduce a wake's effect.
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Old 30-05-2014, 13:31   #47
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Re: No wind, sails still up?

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And don't forget -- having some sail up also lets everyone else know that you are a SAILBOAT!

But not a SAILING VESSEL.
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Old 30-05-2014, 15:22   #48
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

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.... Especially since he can not see any exhaust out the stern as I pass by.
Yep, that'd do my head in. What a mean trick.
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Old 30-05-2014, 17:27   #49
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

I motor with my main up 90% of the time I'm motoring. It allows me to quickly switch back to sailing if I get enough wind. It does reduce rolling, but I'm seldom in a situation in the Salish Sea where I get swell and no wind. It's pretty obvious to all that I'm motoring.
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Old 30-05-2014, 17:40   #50
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

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I motor with my main up 90% of the time I'm motoring. It allows me to quickly switch back to sailing if I get enough wind. It does reduce rolling, but I'm seldom in a situation in the Salish Sea where I get swell and no wind. It's pretty obvious to all that I'm motoring.
Maybe it is Salish Sea thing. I also get the main up ASAP. With no wind, I same that vessel with its mainsail up, and making good speed, is a power-driven vessel.
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Old 30-05-2014, 19:28   #51
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

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Any chance they'll make the estuary a no-wake zone?

Wakes affect both sailboats and motorboats. I've been waked hard enough for water to come on the decks. It isn't uncommon for me to make sudden maneuvers to reduce a wake's effect.
I doubt it. The Alameda/Oakland ferry uses the estuary. It accelerates from the "10" Fl 2.5 (red) marker just west of the Schnitzer Turning Basin. Unless a containership is fueling and there's a no wake declared by VTS, they hustle through.

The issue with powerboaters is and always has been their complete negligence when it comes to their wakes.

That won't change.

Years ago, I learned a nice trick from a fellow sailor. Many sailboat skippers turn into the wakes when the powerboat is passing them. That's wrong and unnecessary. If you maintain your course you get wakes from the quarter which twist the sailboat mercilessly in two planes. All you have to do is PARALLEL the wakes so the boat rocks ONLY side to side. It ain't perfect, but it's a lot easier than trying to turn 90 degrees or more, or take them on the quarter.

When I come out of the estuary I only see about 25% of skippers who know this. Worse, of course, on the weekends.
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Old 30-05-2014, 21:08   #52
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

[QUOTE=Stu Jackson;1553337] All you have to do is PARALLEL the wakes so the boat rocks ONLY side to side.

What if it is the Qeen Mary overtaking you at 30 kts?
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Old 30-05-2014, 21:57   #53
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

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All you have to do is PARALLEL the wakes so the boat rocks ONLY side to side. It ain't perfect, but it's a lot easier than trying to turn 90 degrees or more, or take them on the quarter.
That roll can be quite violent for my boat. I usually turn about 90 degrees into a large wake where the boat is passing from behind and 30 degrees for one passing from ahead while reducing my six-knot cruising speed to idle throttle. When space is tight, I usually turn away from the wake and subsequently turn into it.

My boat's wake:

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Old 30-05-2014, 22:40   #54
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

Mark, if I'm not mistaken, yours is not a "traditional" sailboat. In your case, I fully understand.


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That roll can be quite violent for my boat. I usually turn about 90 degrees into a large wake where the boat is passing from behind and 30 degrees for one passing from ahead while reducing my six-knot cruising speed to idle throttle. When space is tight, I usually turn away from the wake and subsequently turn into it.

My boat's wake:

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Old 30-05-2014, 22:42   #55
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

[QUOTE=Adventurebound;1553393]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
All you have to do is PARALLEL the wakes so the boat rocks ONLY side to side.

What if it is the Qeen Mary overtaking you at 30 kts?
Turn away and go surfing.

Really, in an estuary? And the folks who ask know the limited width and...oh, why bother.

Good one.
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Old 30-05-2014, 22:48   #56
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

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Mark, if I'm not mistaken, yours is not a "traditional" sailboat. In your case, I fully understand.
Yes, it's pure motor vessel, but with steadying sails (not deployed in the photo).
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Old 14-06-2014, 03:13   #57
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

Hello all,

Thanks for all the responses, been good reading for me.
So, what about when you're downwind? Had this the other day. No wind, under motor, and the main was up tightly in. (I didn't matter if I had the main out I still had the issue below).

Still had some nasty action going on where the sail backed (I guess gybed?). It did this for a while so and it didn't matter what angle I turned onto so I took it down.
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Old 14-06-2014, 03:36   #58
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

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Hello all,

Thanks for all the responses, been good reading for me.
So, what about when you're downwind? Had this the other day. No wind, under motor, and the main was up tightly in. (I didn't matter if I had the main out I still had the issue below).

Still had some nasty action going on where the sail backed (I guess gybed?). It did this for a while so and it didn't matter what angle I turned onto so I took it down.
I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly. So you're motoring along (there is no true wind) with your sail up. It is backing and no matter what direction you sailed in this continued.

If my understanding is correct, what you are experiencing is the effect of apparent wind on your sail. When you move the boat trough the water, the action of moving the boat will create wind coming from the front.

Stick your head out the window of a moving car on a day with no wind - ti is the same phenomena.

So yes, unless you like to hear a flapping sail take the damn thing down.
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Old 14-06-2014, 05:29   #59
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Re: No Wind, Sails Still Up?

Yep, that's what I did. Took her down.
I just couldn't understand the two other boats close to me who didn't. I could see and hear the backing from where I was. Couldn't have been doing their sails or rig much good but up they stayed.
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Old 14-06-2014, 07:05   #60
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Re: No wind, sails still up?

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You are correct of course, that is the way it is supposed to be flown. The question I have is how many vessels are actually equipped from the factory with a facility for doing this. Mine is not. My only option for flying one is from the spreader. Flying it from forward would require a pully on the mast and a line forward of the mainsheet to get it out in front of the jib. I tried using my spinnaker halyard once (fractional rig, spinnaker halyard exits 4 feet above the forestay), but I could not attach the downline anywhere that did not interfere with my self tending jib. I would bet this is a common problem. On a mast head rig it might well be impossible to get the thing out in front of the jib at all in which case it would be no better that being flown from a spreader. Perhaps the solution is one on each side of the boat so that it can be seen from both sides.
The rule says "forward where it can best be seen." "Forward" is not otherwise specified, but there is nowhere in the rules where it is stated that this means "forward of the mast", or that the spreaders are not suitable. That said I've hoisted mine with the spinnaker halyard, on a long painter to a forward cleat (with the genny furled). When the foresail is out, I hoist it on the opposite spreader - to give it the most visibility. I then pay particular attention to other vessels that may not be able to see that they are stand on to me; I alter course very early and try to show them my cone.
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