Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-05-2014, 10:06   #16
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,326
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Seriously, how can you tell? If the sail is up and they are motoring, they are sailing very close to the wind - Naturally, if it is dead calm - no problem to be able to tell. But some sailors also do this when there is wind - how then?
If the wind is light, they don't have their head sail up, and the boat is moving along at a good clip even though they are headed into the wind; I figure they are motoring (especially if I can see water or exhaust coming out of the stern).

If they have their sails up and they are full I assume they are sailing (doesn't matter if the engine is on).

If I can not tell and their sails are up I assume they are sailing. If the sails are down and they moving I assume they are motoring.

When in total doubt I maintain a responsibility to avoid a collision or an action that puts EITHER of us at risk and don't play the Colregs sea lawyer about it.

BTW - what do you cone guys do when it is flying from a spreader you can not see?
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 10:10   #17
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,964
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
If the wind is light, they don't have their head sail up, and the boat is moving along at a good clip even though they are headed into the wind; I figure they are motoring (especially if I can see water or exhaust coming out of the stern).

If they have their sails up and they are full I assume they are sailing (doesn't matter if the engine is on).

If I can not tell and their sails are up I assume they are sailing. If the sails are down and they moving I assume they are motoring.

When in total doubt I maintain a responsibility to avoid a collision or an action that puts EITHER of us at risk and don't play the Colregs sea lawyer about it.

BTW - what do you cone guys do when it is flying from a spreader you can not see?
If sails are up and the engine is on, then they are a power vessel like any other. Maintaining responsibility to avoid a collision or an action that puts either boat at risk is in fact part of the Colregs 'sea lawyer' regs.
__________________

__________________
Exile is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 10:15   #18
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,326
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I almost always use mine.
well what is the point of that?
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 10:33   #19
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Currently in Spain
Boat: Hanse 385
Posts: 653
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I have flogged my mainsail in calms for 35,000 miles with no damage.
Good to know, so it doesn't matter if we have it flapping around a little. But you do still always have the main up regardless?
__________________
simonpickard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 10:40   #20
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,578
Images: 14
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
well what is the point of that?
If you saw were he sails, then you would understand why it is helpful to tell others that you are motoring or sailing. Meeting another yacht isn't a problem. Meeting a couple of 40 yacht fleets racing between the commercial traffic in the Solent can be challenging.

SOLENT AIS SHIP POSITIONS
__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 10:48   #21
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,326
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
If you saw were he sails, then you would understand why it is helpful to tell others that you are motoring or sailing. Meeting another yacht isn't a problem. Meeting a couple of 40 yacht fleets racing between the commercial traffic in the Solent can be challenging.

SOLENT AIS SHIP POSITIONS

doesn't answer why "almost" always follows the rules as he posted, just saying
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 13:11   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,006
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Always leave the main up, sheeted in hard, when I'm forced to power. Sail helps to stop the boat from rolling. With the self generated wind from motoring, the sail doesn't flog much. Curiously, found reefing down to the third reef is the best sail configuration for powering as the sail doesn't flog at all yet still dampens the roll. Discovered that when forced to motor back to SF from 200 miles out to make repairs. Wanted to cut the the healing angle down as much as possible in light wind and had the time to experiment with a number of different sail combinations. Westsail used to hoist a very light material storm trivsail with their extremely large logo emblazoned on it at boat shows. We used to denigrate them for their light air storm trisail. After a couple of passages through the doldrums, think such a sail wouldn't be a bad idea for powering in lumpy seas.

It's also not a bad idea to have the main up just in case the Iron Genoa goes south.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 14:02   #23
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,964
Re: No wind, sails still up?

And don't forget -- having some sail up also lets everyone else know that you are a SAILBOAT!
__________________
Exile is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 14:29   #24
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in Oriental NC
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 2,934
Re: No wind, sails still up?

The point of motoring with your sail up depends on the circumstances. I pretty much never raise my sail in advance of setting out if I expect, due to weather and the route, to *never* have it up during the trip. I do however put it up if the forecast calls for better sailing weather, and if the wind dies on me I *leave* it up if I have a reasonable expectation of it returning. Like Mark said it's hard to damage your main from flogging, while your jib is a different story.

In other words I do what basically makes sense and don't think too much about it either way. It's either a judgement call or a convenience call.
__________________
Suijin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 14:49   #25
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,718
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Sailorboy1,

One doesn't fly it from the spreader, but in the forward part of the rigging, where it is more visible. I saw one, once, in use while we were on the West Coast of USA, and I know a guy who has one on his 40 footer. That's a different one for each 15 yrs.

I agree, though, that if people would use them, it would clarify the situation, and hence, is a courtesy.

General ignorance of the colregs, I suspect, is more prevalent outside Europe, and may be almost non-existant in other areas. It's a big ol' world.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 15:02   #26
Registered User
 
Dave852's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tavernier, Fl
Boat: Outremer 50
Posts: 658
Send a message via Skype™ to Dave852
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Just last week I rolled my jib out to give the lady's on the front deck a shady spot. But almost always the sails are going to increase my speed. If I have 3-5 true knots from somewhere behind the beam I can not do much with it from a sailing perspective but if I turn on one motor I can turn that into 6-7 knots of apparent wind forward of the beam and now my sails are powered up increasing my speed and so increasing my apparent wind and so it goes.
Dave852 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2014, 02:02   #27
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,942
Images: 1
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
And don't forget -- having some sail up also lets everyone else know that you are a SAILBOAT!
Uuuuh - actually no. When you have your engine on and are using it for propulsion of any kind - you are not a sailboat. You are an engine driven vessel and will rightfully be regarded as such within the context of the colregs.

Not flying one can have some serious consequences when faced with (as Pete7 posted) heavy traffic.

I realize that in US waters, it receives almost no attention (and is rarely, if ever, enforced), but in European waters, you better have one and be flying it. Many national coast guards will stop and ticket you for not doing so.

A couple of years ago I was sailing in Swedish waters and hit an area with no wind (I was behind an island). Being lazy, I started my engine and sailed along with my sails up (I knew I would come out from behind the lee of the island in less than 10 minutes). A Swedish coast guard cutter happen to round the island and made a beeline for me. I realized that I'd been too lazy to hoist the triangle, got it out and hoisted it. As soon as I did that, the cutter turned away.

I do know sailors who have gotten a fine for sailing in German waters without flying it.

Ignorance of, and not observing the colregs, is no excuse if you hit someone (or get hit). While blame is almost always apportioned to some extent between two colliding vessels, running on your engine with your sails up will means that YOU will receive the greatest share of the blame - because you were misrepresenting yourself.
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2014, 02:09   #28
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,964
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
If sails are up and the engine is on, then they are a power vessel like any other. Maintaining responsibility to avoid a collision or an action that puts either boat at risk is in fact part of the Colregs 'sea lawyer' regs.
Yes, well aware, thanks (post #17). Just having a bit of fun.
__________________
Exile is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2014, 02:26   #29
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,087
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
If sails are up and the engine is on, then they are a power vessel like any other. Maintaining responsibility to avoid a collision or an action that puts either boat at risk is in fact part of the Colregs 'sea lawyer' regs.
Ah not quite, the Coil Regs don't talk about engine on, they talk about a vessel operating mechanical propulsion, it could be in neutral generating electrickery

But I absolutely agree that care and prudence is better than lawyers.
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2014, 03:14   #30
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: No wind, sails still up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Ah not quite, the Coil Regs don't talk about engine on, they talk about a vessel operating mechanical propulsion, it could be in neutral generating electrickery



But I absolutely agree that care and prudence is better than lawyers.

You might have a gander at Rule 19, the term engine is also used ( as in " have her engines ready " )

I don't remember ever seeing " operating mechanical propulsion" ) there are copious references to a " power driven vessel " and the term "propelling machinery " is used in the definition as is " propelled by machinery "

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail, sails, wind

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fourwinds II Wind Generators - Are Parts Still Available ? westsailwill Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 10 26-05-2012 21:19
For Sale: Sails, Sails and More Sails Slainte40 Classifieds Archive 4 23-04-2011 12:59
For Sale: Sails, Sails, Sails - Sydney, Australia ribbony Classifieds Archive 6 22-02-2010 20:28
The Newer Air-X Wind Gen - Still Too Noisy! barnakiel Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 37 03-11-2009 19:08
Sails, Sails, Sails... for sale? Jack Long General Sailing Forum 5 14-08-2008 00:41



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.