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Old 19-10-2014, 15:37   #46
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Interesting response so far, which was somewhat expected given the topic. Initially it was the vessel I was interested in. Though I suspected the subject would illicit all sorts of emotions. Are we mature enough on this forum to discuss this without the name calling?

Firstly, if anyone knows anything about the vessel, can you post it here. I'm suspecting it was once known under a different name.

Re the value of Sea Shepherd - Someone suggested the the High Court action of Australia recently has done more than Sea Shepherd over a decade. Well, I'm at a loss to understand how anyone could think this. For a start it's taken more than ten years to make that application for what was clearly known to be a commercial operation for the entire time. The Japanese have clearly identified that Sea Shepherds actions have crippled their operations just about every year. Their kill rate has each season been reduced to the mere hundreds and some times even less. I'm really at a loss to understand how anyone can suggest Sea Shepherds actions has not had a significant impact when the Japanese themselves say it has. But will the High Court action result in any change. NO! The Japanese are returning this season intent on ignoring the court decision. So much for that. But it had to be done and Sea Shepherd supported the High Court Challenge and lobbied for years for it to occur. Australia had to move on from John Howard as Prime Minister and the Libs to get this initiated. Unfortunately the Libs are back in power and so anything to do with the welfare of the oceans or the climate will be ignored again. And seriously, Australia with either a Liberal (especially a Liberal) or Labour government will stand by and let it happen in our own protected waters. I hope New Zealand will get involved. I think they are more likely to take action.

Pirates? Seriously? well, all I can only say is look at a definition of 'pirate'.

What are people to do, if governments won't take action? If it wasn't for Sea Shephered, some whales would possibly be extinct by now and others would be critically endangered. If governments won't do anything to a nation blatantly ignoring international law even after the International Court has clearly identified their 'science' as nothing more than 'commercial whaling', then who/what should be done? Sea Shepherd is only enforcing laws that are already in place, but are being ignored by Japanese Government. If Sea Shepherd doesn't do this, then what?

Research - Green Peace is another organisation that for many years has completed genuine scientific research. Anyone who claims they don't have a 'desire' or 'feeling' towards a subject is lying. All true scientists have some sort of 'desire'. Think of those scientists trying to cure/kill cancer. They have a 'desire' to eradicate cancer. In the same context you may say that's a 'bias'. It does not colour their research though. Neither does an organisation who's 'bias' is conservation. Most scientists who do research on the environment, have a bias. They generally all want to see the oceans' cleaned up, fish stocks preserved, the climate saved. This does not mean they can't carry out research without their bias colouring their science. Sea Shepherd has a number of arms, like Green Peace. This one little ship is not part of the whaling disruptions and it's not intended to be. Whether the science it gathers will be legitimate will be determined by it's peers, not by it's anti whaling stance.

Peace now. No name calling. It's not necessary to discuss.
Did I miss something? The only name calling a saw, was me calling Watson Capt. Kangaroo.
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:41   #47
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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I'm ok with Bridgit but who is Tom Watson?

Coops.
Sorry about that...it's PAUL Watson. he's the wacko who runs Sea Shepard. Even Greenpeace kicked him out.
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:44   #48
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

QUOTE=europaflyer;1657985]Well, my strategy has been to sit on my ar$e waiting for a legal solution to the problem to be found. Thankfully it was a good plan, and saved me a lot of tedious weeks chugging around the southern ocean throwing stink bombs and pretending to be a badass eco warrior. [/QUOTE]

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Old 19-10-2014, 15:46   #49
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

Just to be fair with respect to call the yach a RV, the Japanese are doing their whaling by hiding under a "research" program.

Fair is fair.
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:47   #50
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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Sorry about that...it's PAUL Watson. he's the wacko who runs Sea Shepard. Even Greenpeace kicked him out.
You have got it or him.
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:50   #51
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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Did I miss something? The only name calling a saw, was me calling Watson Capt. Kangaroo.
I was being pro active. Future tense.

And we like our Kangaroos.
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:52   #52
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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It surprises me how many boat and sea lovers on this forum react with disdain towards an organization that seeks to protect marine wildlife and the life of the oceans in general. I have lived on or near the sea my whole life and in a short 50 years have seen the decline in fish and the mountains of floating trash and plastic and abandoned nets that kill most everything in its wake. But as a species we are really a bunch of selfish assholes. I expect more from seamen.
Actually, you are mistaken. They don't protect anything, they are eco-terrorists. Attacking people is not protecting the environment. The ends do not justify the means.

They attacked Japanese whaling vessels and and in some cases left some whalers adrift at sea without rescuing them. Even though it occurred in international waters, when I was in the Navy a message went out classifying Earth Force Society (their former name) as eco-terrorists and if encountered, we were to report their location.

There is a reason Watson was expelled from Greenpeace, he's not an ecologist, he's a terrorist. The Japanese whalers had permission until recently to hunt whales, whether you liked it or not. Sea Shepherd is not a law enforcement org and has no jurisdiction to attack other vessels, for any reason. Until recently, Paul Watson was not allowed to set foot anywhere on land, he was wanted by most countries worldwide.

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The violent tactics of Sea Shepherd have been opposed, even by those who denounce whaling, such as Greenpeace and the governments of Australia and New Zealand. Officials of the American, Canadian, and Japanese governments have accused them of being eco-terrorists. Paul Watson and American members of Sea Shepherd are currently prohibited by US courts from approaching or harassing Japanese whalers.
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Those actions have included scuttling and disabling commercial whaling vessels at harbor, using limpet mines to blow holes in ship hulls, ramming other vessels, throwing glass bottles of butyric acid on the decks of vessels at sea, boarding of whaling vessels while at sea, and seizure and destruction of drift nets at sea. As of 2009, Paul Watson has said that the organization has sunk ten whaling ships while also destroying millions of dollars worth of equipment. Their practice of attacking and sinking other ships has led to reports of injuries to other sailors as well as the Sea Shepherd crew, including concussions and complications from chemical attacks.
I'm sorry, but even though I think whales should be protected, there is no condoning his tactics of trying to kill people to stop whaling allowed by international treaty. If they didn't like it, they should have tried to get the treaty changed instead of performing terrorist acts. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist, I don't care if charges have been dropped.

His terrorist acts have been well documented and I'm very disappointed that they aren't prosecuting him for his actions.
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:59   #53
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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Actually, you are mistaken. They don't protect anything, they are eco-terrorists. Attacking people is not protecting the environment. The ends do not justify the means.

They attacked Japanese whaling vessels and and in some cases left some whalers adrift at sea without rescuing them. Even though it occurred in international waters, when I was in the Navy a message went out classifying Earth Force Society (their former name) as eco-terrorists and if encountered, we were to report their location.

There is a reason Watson was expelled from Greenpeace, he's not an ecologist, he's a terrorist. The Japanese whalers had permission until recently to hunt whales, whether you liked it or not. Sea Shepherd is not a law enforcement org and has no jurisdiction to attack other vessels, for any reason. Until recently, Paul Watson was not allowed to set foot anywhere on land, he was wanted by most countries worldwide.





I'm sorry, but even though I think whales should be protected, there is no condoning his tactics of trying to kill people to stop whaling allowed by international treaty. If they didn't like it, they should have tried to get the treaty changed instead of performing terrorist acts. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist, I don't care if charges have been dropped.

His terrorist acts have been well documented and I'm very disappointed that they aren't prosecuting him for his actions.
Apparently, you like him as much as I do.
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Old 19-10-2014, 16:01   #54
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Actually, you are mistaken. They don't protect anything, they are eco-terrorists. Attacking people is not protecting the environment. The ends do not justify the means.

They attacked Japanese whaling vessels and and in some cases left some whalers adrift at sea without rescuing them. Even though it occurred in international waters, when I was in the Navy a message went out classifying Earth Force Society (their former name) as eco-terrorists and if encountered, we were to report their location.

There is a reason Watson was expelled from Greenpeace, he's not an ecologist, he's a terrorist. The Japanese whalers had permission until recently to hunt whales, whether you liked it or not. Sea Shepherd is not a law enforcement org and has no jurisdiction to attack other vessels, for any reason. Until recently, Paul Watson was not allowed to set foot anywhere on land, he was wanted by most countries worldwide.

I'm sorry, but even though I think whales should be protected, there is no condoning his tactics of trying to kill people to stop whaling allowed by international treaty. If they didn't like it, they should have tried to get the treaty changed instead of performing terrorist acts. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist, I don't care if charges have been dropped.

His terrorist acts have been well documented and I'm very disappointed that they aren't prosecuting him for his actions.
emotions aside, Can you now elaborate on 'how' he is a 'terrorists'? Who has he killed, kidnapped, threatened?

What Whalers did 'they' leave at sea? Please reference this statement?

The Japanese whalers never, 'NEVER' had permission to whale. The recent High Court decision has clearly articulated this. Your suggesting that a thief is not a thief until a court calls them a thief!

Paul Watson until recently was not aloud to set foot on land oh, what order prevented him form going ashore? If this was true then how was it he appeared in the US in response to the court action against him and subsequent warrants were revoked?

He's tried killing people can you reference this statement?

To my knowledge no one has ever been harmed (so far) as a result of Sea Shepherds actions.
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Old 19-10-2014, 16:05   #55
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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The sea shepherd people have way to much money behind them and seem to be getting bigger each year why are people so fooled by them?
Because there is no shortage of ignorance. People hear catch phrases like "anti-whaling" or "environmentalist" and they want to be considered one of the good guys, so they contribute.

90% of these causes that celebrities champion they couldn't possibly care less about, but some PR hack told them they need to publicly support a cause in order to keep all of the poor people from realizing they make tons of money for nothing and hating them for it.

Charlie Sheen cares more about keeping his coke dealer's phone number on speed dial than he does about whales, but he, of all people, needs the positive PR.

The true philanthropists do it anonymously, and wouldn't dream of naming the vessel after themselves.
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Old 19-10-2014, 16:08   #56
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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Because there is no shortage of ignorance. People hear catch phrases like "anti-whaling" or "environmentalist" and they want to be considered one of the good guys, so they contribute.

90% of these causes that celebrities champion they couldn't possibly care less about, but some PR hack told them they need to publicly support a cause in order to keep all of the poor people from realizing they make tons of money for nothing and hating them for it.

Charlie Sheen cares more about keeping his coke dealer's phone number on speed dial than he does about whales, but he, of all people, needs the positive PR.

The true philanthropists do it anonymously, and wouldn't dream of naming the vessel after themselves.
this is why it's helpful to keep the emotions out of a discussion/debate.

What has Charlie Sheen got to do with this whole thread? yet alone his drug connections?
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Old 19-10-2014, 16:10   #57
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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Another thing Sea Shepherd has done in relation to Whales and the Japanese is informed the Japanese. Whilst there has been no census done as it's not permitted, social media and news reports seem to indicate many young Japanese were not aware of the scam being done.

Whale meat is being stock piled in great numbers because fewer and fewer japanese will eat it as well. If it was not for huge government financial backing, Whaling in Japan would have ceased many years ago.


I'd like to see the source of your information, please.
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Old 19-10-2014, 16:11   #58
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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this is why it's helpful to keep the emotions out of a discussion/debate.

What has Charlie Sheen got to do with this whole thread? yet alone his drug connections?
Maybe you missed it.

He donated the boat. It's named after him. Any more questions?
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Old 19-10-2014, 16:14   #59
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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Maybe you missed it.

He donated the boat. It's named after him. Any more questions?
NO he didn't.

'Martin Sheen' donated the boat and that's why it's called, 'Martin Sheen' !
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Old 19-10-2014, 16:15   #60
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Re: New Sea Shepherd vessel and shes a beauty

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yes very funny.

But, seriously, what have you been doing? , more to the point what would you have be done?

The High Court action, which took a Labour Government (with Greens presure) to action, and is unlikely with a Liberal Government to do anything when the Japanese willfully ignore this coming season. So, tell me, without the humour , what do you propose?
As I see it, Japan's response to Sea Shepherd's activities has been to allocate ever more resources to the annual hunt. Sea Shepherd really made very little difference until the 2010-2011 hunt, but even since then the catch numbers have averaged ~200 per year from ~500 before. The ICJ ruling was successful in completely stopping the 2014-2015 hunt, and although Japan is making noise about a 2015-2016 hunt we have yet to see if it will follow through, now that it is in clear violation of international law. I still hold out hope that a non-violent legal solution will hold out. I suppose time will tell.

Sea Shepherd have a very carefully managed media presence which puts out the line that without them, Japan would be catching around 1000 minke whales per year and that therefore they are saving 800 each year. To my mind the data shows that this is something of an exaggeration of the truth. The most effective strategy so far has been to pursue a legal solution, and in spite of the painful fact that there is very little I can do to influence this, it is where I place my hope, rather than with Paul Watson's dubious 'eco warriors'.
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