Negativity on Sailing Your Own Boat (RANT)

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by nv5l

200 miles a day, that's pretty good -- I can't come close to that without a 3-4 knot current. What's her hull speed, or however you say it for a multihull?

I calculated using online converters for hull speed and it came out at 10.9 knts

But searching the internet for people with Gemini's it was about 8.5 to 9 knts.

But a lot on here will dispute this, especially coming from Mono hulls, as they are slower than Cats.

It also depends on how much crap you put in them, a heavier boat naturally goes slower.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Mr B, my friend, you are dreaming. Dreaming...

Let's get together after you have made the passage and talk about reality.

cheers,

Jim

Why the dreaming, I said 10 Miles per hour tops,
I also said it was a guestimate for people asking me how long it will take.

10 MPH equals 8.6 Knots.

I said it would take about 15 days, tops, That means the best I can do,

If I hit the Doldrums, which in that part of the Pacific is quite on the cards,

It might take me a month Fiji to Bundaberg,

It might take a month going down Bundaberg to Melbourne,

I have lived in this country all my life and in Queensland for quite a few years, I used to fish between the Mainland and Fraser Island, You should experience the running currents there, That will Open your eyes some what, 3 metre king tide running over a 2.5 High tide, Thats five and a half metres of tide running

Similar to the tides in the Kimberleys only not as high, They get a 10 metre tide,

The weather here is some thing else, There is a good chance I will be sitting in a sheltered bay some where for a week or more till the storms pass,

This also gets added to the travel time,

I may even sink, then I will never get there,

But I said approximately 15 days, I still stand by that,

I drive a 14 foot Paper Tiger with a 20 foot main only, Mono's dont come any where near it, I go past them like their anchored,

I only take the Tiger out when the wind is screaming, other wise it is just not fun,
Putting around on a slow boat is not my style

But I will put my travel times up here when I come back, Just so other people can compare,
I am out there to enjoy myself, Fast or slow is totally irelevent.

But it will Boogy with the sailchute on it.

And unless your a Kitesailer, or you have a sailchute on yours, You wont understand about the Sailchute,

A vessel with a sail chute going in a dead straight line, the sailchute swings through 90 degrees from one side of the boat to the other with out changing direction of the boat once,

[Patient]

The best revenge is living well and that is exactly what scares most people; You living life to an extent that they do not have the brass to do themselves.

The negativity is just confirmation of that. Take it with a smile and allow it to confirm your identity being apart from those that go home to the same house after being in the same cubical for the rest of their lives.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by webejammin

I would suggest you not use any sails that didn,t come with the Gemini 105Mc there screecher sail is only 420 sq ft and will be good up to 25 kt's of breeze achording to Dave Berig the sail maker. You said the extra spinnaker you have is for a Seawind 1000 but remember our Gemini's are only 14ft beam not 19 ft and that will make a big difference except in very light breezes. I would say you will average 7 to 8 kt's in a steady 12 to 15 kt breezes unless your surfing waves and you could get up to 18 kt's in 25 to 40 kt's of breeze surfing waves. Last week We did get 10.2kt's out of a 18 kt breeze on a broad reach and only healed 4 deg's not bad for a little cat. I was also told that in open ocean sailing to only put the centerboards down 2/3's the way down and in rough conditions to not use the centerboards unless your surfing big swells and reach 18kt's and put them down about 1/3 to slow the boat and get good stearing.
You will have a great time and I would have at least one or two extra sailors aboard to be able to get some sleep. As you know you need to check the autopilot motor and belt and carry extra parts sence you may be solo unless you buy groceries for everyone.

MR B Did you get on the Gemini forum on Yahoo to get more info on your cat's maintance.

The sailchute is not a spinnaker or any thing like it, Its similar to a parachute that is connected to the front of the boat, it hangs in the air 50 metres in front of the boat,

It is not for a Seawind, They just had one on a Seawind for demonstration purposes,
The Seawind is similar to the Gemini in looks and shape only,

Thanks for your info, Its good to know what the Gemini can actually do, from some one who has one,
I dont think I will be dissapointed with my Gemini, and its capability.

I only need some one to sit there on watch while I am asleep and make sure we dont get run over, They can wake me if there is any need too,

Single handed, I just chuck the drogue over and sleep, but I would still need someone to be on watch,

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Mr B

But a lot on here will dispute this, especially coming from Mono hulls, as they are slower than Cats.

The upwind component is pretty big on your trip, especially south of Bundy.
As Jim indicates: do it without regard to what we suggest and lets talk about it afterwards.

Now the important thing is not to take our advice as negativity. Its just advice from folks who have done it against someone who has not. The type of boat is, of course, a factor, however we have kinda factored some of that in too

If you in a 33 foot cat going upwind and I was in a 39 foot mono doing 5.1 to 5.4 knots average then I would stack bucks on the table to say you won't do it at 200 miles per day - 8.5 knots average per day x 8 days for a 1,600nm passage. Or the 7 days for 1,300nms Bundy to Melbourne.

I don't know what months you are looking at but say you leave for Fiji now and do the trip October/November. The pilot chart, attached, shows you that its not tradewinds up the butt sailing. Even the East Austrailian Current that shows at 20-30 n miles per day, but in all the years I have raced up and down that coast I can tell you its sheer good luck to get half a knot. (unless trying to go against it then you'll find the full current!!).

In any event its going to be a great trip for you! When at sea the number of miles per day really becomes a very low priority for me. Why wants to get back to the Rat Race fast? I make a specific rule NOT to start counting down the miles till I am pretty close to port, always less than 1,000nms on a propper length passage and less than 500 miles on a little passages like yours

Maybe you'll find dragging a bucket is better. More time to enjoy more sunsets, more dolphins, more sea birds, more enjoyment of life!


Mark

[nv5l]

I think he meant that if max is 8.6kts, it might be tough to maintain 8.3kts 24/7, which is what you'd need to do. I'm sure you can do it, but I couldn't.

I'd be ecstatic if I could maintain 6 on your boat, but I'm still a novice compared to you guys. I hope you'll post your progress.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The upwind component is pretty big on your trip, especially south of Bundy.
As Jim indicates: do it without regard to what we suggest and lets talk about it afterwards.

Now the important thing is not to take our advice as negativity. Its just advice from folks who have done it against someone who has not. The type of boat is, of course, a factor, however we have kinda factored some of that in too

If you in a 33 foot cat going upwind and I was in a 39 foot mono doing 5.1 to 5.4 knots average then I would stack bucks on the table to say you won't do it at 200 miles per day - 8.5 knots average per day x 8 days for a 1,600nm passage. Or the 7 days for 1,300nms Bundy to Melbourne.

I don't know what months you are looking at but say you leave for Fiji now and do the trip October/November. The pilot chart, attached, shows you that its not tradewinds up the butt sailing. Even the East Austrailian Current that shows at 20-30 n miles per day, but in all the years I have raced up and down that coast I can tell you its sheer good luck to get half a knot. (unless trying to go against it then you'll find the full current!!).

In any event its going to be a great trip for you! When at sea the number of miles per day really becomes a very low priority for me. Why wants to get back to the Rat Race fast? I make a specific rule NOT to start counting down the miles till I am pretty close to port, always less than 1,000nms on a propper length passage and less than 500 miles on a little passages like yours

Maybe you'll find dragging a bucket is better. More time to enjoy more sunsets, more dolphins, more sea birds, more enjoyment of life!


Mark

People like you, I listen to, Thats how I learn, from people who have actually done it, You dont come across as negative to me,

Middle of October, I will be sailing back down the coast with the whales returning to Antartica,

Video Madness, sailing with the whales, What rat race, Hahahahahaha

Why do I want to go sailing, Only a sailor knows that,

[Don1500]

"I said it would take about 15 days, tops, That means the best I can do,"

Actually "15 days, tops" means the worst you can do. "15 days, at best" would mean the best you could do. You can see the difference. The way you said it says you guarantee 200 miles per day. A bit optimistic, but hay, I plan on 100mpd and cheer anything more.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Don1500

"I said it would take about 15 days, tops, That means the best I can do,"

Actually "15 days, tops" means the worst you can do. "15 days, at best" would mean the best you could do. You can see the difference. The way you said it says you guarantee 200 miles per day. A bit optimistic, but hay, I plan on 100mpd and cheer anything more.

Your right there, I stuffed up, A lot on my mind at present, Thanks,

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Mr B

(...)

But a lot on here will dispute this, especially coming from Mono hulls, as they are slower than Cats.

(...)

I think we have been into this alley before ;-)

Please do yourself a favour and have a look at, say, ARC results. Cruising cats are about as fast as cruising monos. In fact, they tend to be a bit slower as cruisers tend to drag along way too much stuff and an overweight cat is not a fast beast at all.

Off course, Banque Populaire is faster than Cutty Sark, but that's probably not what you meant.

Cheers,
b.

[zeehag]

hull speed is an objective not always attained. cruising is cruising-- granted i am cruising a formosa 41, so my info will be slightly different and boat a lot slower--well, not a lot-- hull speed is rarely attained even in a speed demon sloop......btdt.... found hull speed plus some with thunder storms and with gale force winds. in the sloop there was so much bashing into winds that we didnt have ability to maintain hull speed for more than a couple of hours daily.
the formosa seems to have a liking for 5 kts of boat speed. wow...i am impressed. i dont know how cruising cats and tris do-- from what i was advised by those sailing some, is not much faster than my formosa while cruising. wow
and here i thunk cats and tris were speed demons......

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Mr B

People like you, I listen to, Thats how I learn, from people who have actually done it, You dont come across as negative to me,

Middle of October, I will be sailing back down the coast with the whales returning to Antartica,

Brian, let me try one more time:

I am not expressing negativity about your proposed plans. I am trying to introduce some experience based realities.

I don't claim to be a guru, but Ann and I have some experience in sailing the area you are interested in. We've never done the trip from Fiji non-stop, but we have done Vanuatu and/or New Caledonia to Qld around 15 times (log books are on the boat and we are not right now). These trips have been done in monohull yachts as you have correctly stated, but our 46 foot OAL 44.5 foot LWL mono has proven to be faster than many of the similar sized cruising cats we've encountered, both upwind and down. While we do knock off the occasional 200 mile day (those are nautical miles, btw) our very best passage (from Santo to Gladstone) had an AVERAGE day's run of 180 miles.

So, Brian, I thought that your expectations of 200 MPD averages were optimistic, and that you should perhaps reconsider for planning purposes. Running out of provisions or water when a voyage takes longer than planned is not fun.

And by the way, I think that the folks in Platypus Bay and Great Sandy Straights will be astounded when your 5.5 metre tide arrives.

I hope that your voyage goes well, and I really would be happy to discuss your experience when you arrive.

Cheers,

Jim

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by zeehag

hull speed is an objective not always attained (...)

On top of that, it may actually be more important (from the speed point of view) how easily the design is driven than what the hull speed is. An easily driven, slower (lower hull speed) boat will often sail more miles any given day than a faster (higher hull speed) one.

b.

[sctpc]

Stupid question to Mark or Jim
I am not sailing that far out but why would you not try to head south as far as possible toward NZ then swing across to try to get strait to Melbourne and then if the winds are wrong you could easily come in to Sydney.

[Boracay]

REVISED Marine Weather Bulletin Issued from the National Weather Forecasting Centre Nadi at 7:44pm on Tuesday the 6th of September 2011

A STRONG WIND WARNING REMAINS IN FORCE FOR LAU AND SOUTHWEST VITI LEVU WATERS, KORO SEA, VATU-I-RA AND KADAVU PASSAGES.

Situation: A trough of low pressure lies slow moving to the west of Fiji and is expected to affect the group from later tomorrow.

Forecast to midnight tomorrow for Fiji waters:

For Lau and Southwest Viti Levu Waters, Koro Sea, Vatu-i-Ra and Kadavu Passages: East to southeast winds 20 to 25 knots gradually easing and turning northeast. Rough seas. Moderate southeast swells. Further outlook: East to northeast winds 15 to 20 knots.

For the rest of Fiji Waters: East to southeast winds 15 to 20 knots, easing to 10 to 15 knots and gradually turning northeast. Moderate to rough seas. Moderate southeast swells.

Further outlook: Northeast winds 10 to 15 knots.