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Old 08-05-2015, 20:32   #31
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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Originally Posted by kas_1611 View Post
Don't forget to add any tidal range



So if anchoring in 8.5m with a 1.5m bow roller drop you need 40m of rode out for 4:1. If you then expect a 3m rise of tide you need to add a further 12m of rode to maintain the same 4:1 at high tide otherwise you'd actually end up at 3:1 by high tide. As a general rule you always calculate based on the deepest water you expect to have and not the water depth at the moment of dropping (unless that happens to be high tide of course).



One of the luxuries of sailing in the Adriatic, virtually no tidal range to worry about



Keiron

Should have discussed tide!! I anchor on east coast and have tide changes of 6-8 feet. Ugh.


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Old 08-05-2015, 20:51   #32
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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Originally Posted by sophiedaisey View Post
Should have discussed tide!! I anchor on east coast and have tide changes of 6-8 feet. Ugh.
One of the first areas I spend anchored at length was Guernsey, UK where the tide was as much as 31ft. Just imagine anchoring where you need to account for an almost 10 meter tide.
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Old 09-05-2015, 06:27   #33
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

31 feet!!! That would be a challenge!


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Old 09-05-2015, 06:44   #34
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

Every situation is different, and I am always amused by those that argue "the only way...."

Situation:
  • East coast with sand/mud bottoms
  • performance cat that is weight sensitive
  • I only anchor in water over 7 feet deep about 1-2 times per year
  • bad makes retrieval by windlass mandatory
Answer, for me:
  • 100' chain is enough for 99% of the time
  • Easily retrieved without passing splice
  • 25' long bridle (catamaran) provides the stretch a fiber rode would provide
  • G43 chain is reasonably light
  • I'm not worried about huricanes; not many and I will hide in my very well protected marina (no history of storm damage in 100 years). I can always get home within the weather prediction window, since I cruise within ~ 300 miles of home.
But if I were somewhere else with a different boat, different answers. But this is why I get the OP's question.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:34   #35
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

It is crazy to add a short piece of rope to an all chain rode, except to secure the bitter end. Rope can be accidentally chafed or cut through. Use a rope bridle for shock loads.
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:44   #36
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

We use 30' of chain with another 200' of rope. We rarely anchor in deeper than 10' so we are typically mostly chain. We do run a bridle to the bows. We use a long dock line and a prussic hitch which takes a minute or so and will hold either the chain or the rope.


We do manually retrieve so the rope/chain connection is a simple thimble. That connection is the biggest issue with a windlass as a thimble won't go thru.


As far as the comment about retrieving against heavy winds, most windlass manufacturers recommend against, using the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor. You motor to the anchor while retrieving.
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Old 09-05-2015, 21:53   #37
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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We use 30' of chain with another 200' of rope. We rarely anchor in deeper than 10' ..
As far as the comment about retrieving against heavy winds, most windlass manufacturers recommend against, using the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor. You motor to the anchor while retrieving.
I think that was my comment or Mark's.

It is really a combination of both.
In heavy winds motor up to reduce the strain but keep sufficient load to help maintain a forward lead and reduce excessive shearing .

That also helps to reduce the danger of Overrunning your Anchor line which at night in a crowded place...could be a disaster.

The context..which you agreed.. was really about the problem of passing the chain to line splice in those conditions IF using a windlass.

Lastly In a perfect world you are correct about motoring towards the anchor while hauling up.. but if you found yourself single handed in a crowded anchorage in those same conditions.... Your windlass and it's deck attachments SHOULD be able to handle it.

I am a believer in testing to make sure
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Old 11-05-2015, 13:39   #38
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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31 feet!!! That would be a challenge!
In Jersey or Saint-Malo, the tide can exceed 40 feet (12m). In this area, going for all chain is difficult on small yachts if one wants to have 5:1 scope and stay afloat at low tide.

Alain
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Old 11-05-2015, 14:05   #39
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

Weston Super Mare (Avonmouth) has a tidal range of 14.5m, second only to Bay of Fundy, so that is an incredible 60m of rode just to cope with low tide to high tide!!!

However, with a cat, bilge keeler or lifting keel mono you have the "luxury" of being able to dry out on the mud flats so the full tidal range isn't actually that much.

Again I reiterate my early comment about the luxury of the Adriatic where tide is never more than 1m

Keiron
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Old 11-05-2015, 16:25   #40
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

I think too much is made of adjusting for tidal range rather than understanding that the deeper you anchor in....the better holding values you will get from an increased catenary to overcome from the chain lifting off the bottom.

Many promote the benefits of anchoring in 4-10ft of water....not realizing that you are pretty much depending on how well your anchor is dug in.

I prefer to anchor in deeper water and allow the weight of all the chain I have room to put out....do its job as a shock absorber if it tries to lift off the bottom.
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Old 11-05-2015, 18:10   #41
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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Stu

You really have a 20kg (44 lb) Rocna? Better change your signature.
No, but my friend who wrote that does.
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Old 11-05-2015, 19:52   #42
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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I think too much is made of adjusting for tidal range rather than understanding that the deeper you anchor in....the better holding values you will get from an increased catenary to overcome from the chain lifting off the bottom.

Many promote the benefits of anchoring in 4-10ft of water....not realizing that you are pretty much depending on how well your anchor is dug in.

I prefer to anchor in deeper water and allow the weight of all the chain I have room to put out....do its job as a shock absorber if it tries to lift off the bottom.
In bad conditions, it's about how well the anchor is dug in regardless of how much chain you use. More chain creates cantenary but rope can stretch providing the same benefits. We've used our system in all kinds of conditions and once set never dragged.
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Old 12-05-2015, 00:29   #43
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

I disagree.... Your anchor will REMAIN well set .....only if the shank is allowed to stay horizontal with the bottom

The weight of an all chain rode will be far more effective in accomplising that (especially in deep water) than lightweight anchor line).
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Old 12-05-2015, 02:15   #44
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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Many promote the benefits of anchoring in 4-10ft of water....not realizing that you are pretty much depending on how well your anchor is dug in.
You may have misunderstood. Few Chesapeake Bay harbors offer more than 10 feet. This is one reason many of the sailors only carry 100' of chain; more is just wasted.

It's regional.
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Old 12-05-2015, 03:11   #45
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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I disagree.... Your anchor will REMAIN well set .....only if the shank is allowed to stay horizontal with the bottom

The weight of an all chain rode will be far more effective in accomplising that (especially in deep water) than lightweight anchor line).
If we are talking about 6-10' of chain, I can buy that arguement.

With 30-50' of chain, you still get the cantenary creating a pull parrallel to the bottom in most conditions and in the really bad conditions, you aren't getting the pull parrallel even with all chain. In those conditions, the chain has virtually no shock absorbing ability but a rope rode as long as protected from chaffe will continue to have shock absorbing ability.
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