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Old 06-05-2015, 13:15   #16
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

you need sufficient chain to prevent chafe on the bottom and the rest a stretchy nylon rode. From F6 upwards chain is pulled straight, no catenary, resulting in shock loads. You can always add a chum weight to reduce wandering in light winds
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Old 06-05-2015, 20:08   #17
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

For years I used a combination of mostly chain combined with rope. It worked well as the rope provided a shock absorber and could be cleated to a strong deck cleat instead of the windless.
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Old 06-05-2015, 20:44   #18
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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Originally Posted by rbrentp View Post
Interesting and timely. I was speaking with a windlass/rode/anchor vendor. He said that in Europe a long length of chain was very common due to rocky bottoms. In the US, generally with softer bottom the chain length was MUCH less. I have two 14 kilo anchors and he said eight meters of chain was overkill the rest should be rope. Obviously size and therefore weight of chain has an impact. Is this really a rocks versus sand/mud issue?
For me the difference would be close to 100 kilos out of the bow if he is right.
Thoughts?

That depends on where you are cruising. Much of the middle Atlantic coast and bays will be sand or mud bottoms. Farther south coral is a concern. Farther north rock ledges can chafe rope. On the U.S. West coast water is deep and bottoms can have sharp rocks. Chain is recommended.


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Old 06-05-2015, 20:52   #19
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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Originally Posted by sophiedaisey View Post
Always spend the night on 5:1 chain with a three strand snubber. Given that from bow to water I have 5 feet so that is an automatic 25 feet for starters. If the wind is expected to rise I will get to 7:1. Also have 150 feet chain and 150 feet 12 plait. Never had to use it all, but nice to know its there. Never drug anchor. People laugh, but have windlass to bring in it and I sleep well at night. I also set anchor alarm on iPhone so that I am aware when the tide changes or the wind shifts. Having said this, watch me drag this week!


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100% in agreement. More is better plus anchor alarm and I sleep well. I have 60m (180ft) +25m (75ft) 8 plait nylon spliced to chain. I'm regular anchoring in 60ft and coral!

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Old 06-05-2015, 21:21   #20
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

Ive posted this dozens of times:

The Rocna. All 20kg of it with 100ft of chain. The rest of the world can debate all they like. When I pull into a place like Bodega Bay at midnight and the fog is so thick I can't see the jetty 50 feet away to make an entrance, I drop my hook in the rolling ocean swells with the surf crashing (Foster says it's like staying in a cheap Best Western beside the highway), and I sleep. And in the morning I have a windlass to pull the beast up and I wouldn't trade it for anything. (I also wouldn't add more chain - this works perfectly in 25 to 30 feet of water - you let all the chain out and you tie off nylon at the preferred scope and don't bother with snubbers and chain hooks and all that stuff...)

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Old 06-05-2015, 23:21   #21
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

I believe that it is always a good idea to have at least some rope between the end of your chain and whatever hard point on the boat it attaches to... the rope being long enough to get from the hard point to the deck so that if you have to, you can cut the rope to release all the chain at short notice.

Given that most people will add a rope snubber I don't see any problem with 100' of chain and 10' of rope (assuming the rope is sized appropriately, of couse).
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:17   #22
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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Ive posted this dozens of times:

The Rocna. All 20kg of it with 100ft of chain.
Stu

You really have a 20kg (44 lb) Rocna? Better change your signature.
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Old 07-05-2015, 06:13   #23
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

When you live on the boat full time at anchor, an all chain rode with a snubber is the only sensible set up. Rope just can't take the chafe and possible bottom hazards 24/7/365. I think most full time cruisers have recommended this to you, but some weekenders keep recommending rope/chain.

You can do whatever you please... It's your boat. If you decide to go rope/chain, I can assure you that at some point, you learn the necessity and wisdom of all chain.
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Old 07-05-2015, 07:02   #24
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

I've always had chain/rope combos for my anchor lines. I prefer about 150 feet of chain, hooked on to about 150 feet of line. That way, I can anchor on all chain in most conditions that I find myself in, but still have more line to put out if I ever get caught in deeper water or a whole lot of wind.

And, you do need a snubber if you put out all chain. They are easy to make. Just get a chain hook that fits your chain, and tie one or two lines to it (I use two lines) and then I clean both off to my forward cleats. You actually want them a little smaller so they can stretch and take us shock loads (from gusts, waves) which is the whole of point of having a snubber.
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Old 07-05-2015, 07:10   #25
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

I have now seen two different explanations on 7:1 or 5:1. So,1 is the anchor weight and 5/7 is the weight in chain? If so a 15 kilo anchor would need 75 to 100 kilos of chain weight. Would this apply with two anchors or one? More or less on a cat?

Having a manual windlass and having cranked up a couple times in 30 meters of water with 3/8ths chain I am looking at electric windlasses.
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Old 07-05-2015, 22:05   #26
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

5:1 is the anchoring scope. For every 1 foot of depth that you anchor in (including the distance from the bow to the water) you let out 5 feet of road. When 7:1 scope, would be 7 feet rode for every one foot of depth. Best book on an anchoring is The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Earl Hinz. It is an older book, but is like the Bible of anchoring.


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Old 07-05-2015, 22:27   #27
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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I hate rope rodes. The boat drifts at anchor in light winds. But most importantly is how do you get it up? Does your windlass go from rope to chain? If not can you pull the rope up in a 30 knot squall while dragging?

Apart from that 5 x chain is over the top unless you are in a storm. You tend to take up half the anchorage.

If you are cruising I would ditch the rope and add a C joint and whact on another 100 feet of chain. If its just a weekend boat its probably not worth the money.
Mark has nailed the key issues.... primarily handling 2 different kinds of ground tackle in heavy wind.

If your windlass can seamlessly retrieve ground tackle under load while dragging onto a lee shore... then you can mix it up with Anchor Line (not Rope!!) for extra length... (does not really increase your holding power by much)

If NOT... then add extra chain if you don't have enough scope for your cruising grounds.

In either case... keep your Bitter End lashed high in the chain locker, so that you can join on an extra length of proper sized Anchor Line (not Rope!!) in case you have a deep water emergency.

http://www.universalyachting.com/sai...t-terminology/
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Old 07-05-2015, 22:34   #28
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

Mark,

I'm right there with ya. We hardly ever put out more than a proper 4:1 (actual depth plus bow height) and often 3:1. A 55lb Rocna does that for your confidence!


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Old 08-05-2015, 01:08   #29
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

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Originally Posted by sophiedaisey View Post
5:1 is the anchoring scope. For every 1 foot of depth that you anchor in (including the distance from the bow to the water) you let out 5 feet of road. When 7:1 scope, would be 7 feet rode for every one foot of depth. Best book on an anchoring is The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Earl Hinz. It is an older book, but is like the Bible of anchoring.


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Don't forget to add any tidal range

So if anchoring in 8.5m with a 1.5m bow roller drop you need 40m of rode out for 4:1. If you then expect a 3m rise of tide you need to add a further 12m of rode to maintain the same 4:1 at high tide otherwise you'd actually end up at 3:1 by high tide. As a general rule you always calculate based on the deepest water you expect to have and not the water depth at the moment of dropping (unless that happens to be high tide of course).

One of the luxuries of sailing in the Adriatic, virtually no tidal range to worry about

Keiron
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Old 08-05-2015, 06:13   #30
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Re: Mostly chain with a little rope...

Thanks to all for the info and I am getting the anchoring book. Next question: the chin is solid but rusty. One suggestion has been made to have it regalvanized rather than replaced. Thoughts?
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