Visit our Popular Forums

**Ex-Calif** · 01-08-2014, 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I've been beat by non-believers as well as believers and I have beat both. Its actually all about your sailing skills and a little luck and nothing about spiritual beliefs.

I believe in mojo. You are crazy if you don't.

There is no such thing as luck...

robert sailor · 01-08-2014, 06:25

OK I will admit that I don't actually believe in luck so you have me on that one but lets just say situational fortune or you are in the right place at the right time or whatever terminology would be appropriate or a series of events that put you in a position that you didn't entirely create yourself that allowed you to prosper,excel or win at something, you get my drift. It has been often said that the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it, part of the human experience.

**Ex-Calif** · 01-08-2014, 16:00

So we are all looking for a way to explain the inexplicable.

Luck, fortune, mojo, juju, karma etc.

Most believe there is a link to performance - if you believe something is on your side, maybe it gives you the courage to extend your limits and that may give one an edge.

Pelagic · 01-08-2014, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Most believe there is a link to performance - if you believe something is on your side, maybe it gives you the courage to extend your limits and that may give one an edge.

I just wonder what is the more powerful Force;
Self Belief or self Doubt?

Many times in last minute sporting victories, you see the leading team, squander their lead in an almost complementary way by offering the other team the preventable oportunity to win.

It is as if they had bought into a preordained script and played their part?

Self doubt almost guarantees failure

Whereas self belief I think just increases the odds.

**Ex-Calif** · 01-08-2014, 17:40

This may sound cold hearted but think about whom we send to war - Young men that have predominantly never failed! It is inconceivable to them that they will get killed.

On D-Day there was a mix of old-timers (Africa and Sicily vets) and a ton of new guys. The old timers knew that they could get killed and that they needed to get off the beach. They kept their heads down but moved everyone along off the beach. The people that made it off the beaches were a mix of the lucky and the experienced - just the guys you need to fight the next phase.

In the Pacific, the marines kept sending "new" divisions to take each new island. I think this was a planned strategy (aside from old divisions getting devastated manpower-wise) you had 3rd marine, 5th marine and 7th marine in rotation, along of course with army landings. I am sure there was an element of "on the second landing the vets are not going to be as aggressive getting off the beach - they are gonna keep their heads down!

On the other side of the Normandy game you had a ton of eastern front vets who knew they could lose. And when they looked out and saw 5,000 ships they probably knew in their hearts they had lost.

robert sailor · 01-08-2014, 22:16

Assuming decent skills most sports are 50% mental and if you think you will be beat the game is already over.
This also goes in business and many other things in life. There is nothing weird or magical about it, its normal.

**atoll** · 01-08-2014, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

This may sound cold hearted but think about whom we send to war - Young men that have predominantly never failed! It is inconceivable to them that they will get killed.

On D-Day there was a mix of old-timers (Africa and Sicily vets) and a ton of new guys. The old timers knew that they could get killed and that they needed to get off the beach. They kept their heads down but moved everyone along off the beach. The people that made it off the beaches were a mix of the lucky and the experienced - just the guys you need to fight the next phase.

In the Pacific, the marines kept sending "new" divisions to take each new island. I think this was a planned strategy (aside from old divisions getting devastated manpower-wise) you had 3rd marine, 5th marine and 7th marine in rotation, along of course with army landings. I am sure there was an element of "on the second landing the vets are not going to be as aggressive getting off the beach - they are gonna keep their heads down!

On the other side of the Normandy game you had a ton of eastern front vets who knew they could lose. And when they looked out and saw 5,000 ships they probably knew in their hearts they had lost.

i think the expression you were looking for was "cannon fodder!"

captain58sailin · 02-08-2014, 11:44

"May the force be with you." It is better to have good timing than good luck. Having any kind of faith is better than no faith.

Pelagic · 02-08-2014, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

.....Having any kind of faith is better than no faith.

As a student of philosophy these kind of statements always bothered me.

Where's the proof other than your personal belief?

It can equally be argued that preparation and execution will be better served, if there are fewer mental distractions.

It can therfore be argued that the temptation to perceive personal actions as being preordained or subject to magical forces is a weakness... Not a strength.

**StuM** · 02-08-2014, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

As a student of philosophy these kind of statements always bothered me.

Where's the proof other than your personal belief?

Your question is meaningless. Faith and proof are dichotomous.

Pelagic · 02-08-2014, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM

Your question is meaningless. Faith and proof are dichotomous.

Actually they are mutually exclusive and a self fulfilling prophecy.

Therefore all intelligent discussions about Faith are meaningless.

captain58sailin · 02-08-2014, 20:25

The beauty of faith is, no proof required. Since I am not seeking converts, I do not have to justify my position on the matter. I am content to be the sole member of my church, or how ever you want to quantify it. Which brings us full circle to opinions are like noses, we all have one and they all smell. "Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy" "Why not?". I have absolute faith in my preparations. I have absolute faith, that I only have control over my own attitude towards events, planned and unplanned. Being in tune with my inner being is not a distraction from taking care of my boat, it is integrated into the process. Stop, take a breath, take a gander at the horizon and marvel at the beauty of it all. You don't have to apply a label to it, to appreciate it.

Pelagic · 02-08-2014, 20:52

Totally comfortable with your own personal position Cap58.... And I am glad you are not seeking converts.

I just get confused about intent when blanket statements about Faith being better than No Faith creeps into the discussions.

It becomes too judgmental an unproveable a-priori statement in my opinion and the start of a slippery slope towards defining 'acceptable Faiths.

May all your gods go with you..