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Old 08-02-2019, 06:18   #1
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MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

Worth a watch


Bit of backgound. Experienced crew (dingy/yachtmaster). Coastguard were notified and happened to be on another call nearby, although the lifeboat station is just a couple of miles from the MOB and the Coastguard station is about 12 miles away.


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Old 08-02-2019, 08:45   #2
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

Quite a video. Nice job on the rescue. I particularly noted that one crewmember was designated to maintain the watch, pointing at the MOB. Well done. My biggest concern is that I almost never sail with that big a crew, and I am way too big for my wife to manhandle me aboard if I am not fully able to help.
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Old 08-02-2019, 08:54   #3
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

Getting an mob back on board is one of the hardest things to do. The difference in height between the deck and the water, the water laden mob, tired crew and so on.
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:35   #4
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

Looks to me like they spent a LONG time sailing AWAY from the MOB while they messed with getting sails down & engine going. Not good for hypothermia, especially in January in Ireland. Doesn't look like the victim was able to help himself much after such a long time in the water. Amply crewed, the boat could have spun 'round immediately & come up to victim with sails luffing, and lowered them after regaining contact with the victim. Heeling might have made getting him back aboard easier, as well. Dublin Bay is plenty big enough to lose sight of a victim, especially if you're sailing away from him at what looks like better than 5 knots.
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Old 11-02-2019, 14:00   #5
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

Yeah. I would have probably put the boat into the wind to kill the speed. Seems like they continued on a bit longer that I would have liked.
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Old 11-02-2019, 14:42   #6
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

they did great, but let's talk about it...

i did a safety-at-sea class in which i learned that the most important thing (beyond keeping someone pointing at the MOB, having someone else make the MOB call), was to SLOW the boat down asp and circle round.

to slow the boat, it was suggested that we immediately backwind the jib and then make the turn.

i've yet had the opportunity to test this method, having learned MOB and practiced it differently with RYA

anybody?


another point: how to get the person back into the boat. any good suggestions?

i learned that, if the MOB is not too exhausted, run a line tied off on a cleat down over the side near the MOB and back up to a winch. if the MOB can stand on it, hold onto it, lean over it, one can winch in the line to help get the weight upward enough so to pull him/her on deck

also, following recovery, any good suggestions as to how to warm up the MOB?

i learned to strip the MOB to bare skin and warm him/her up by contact with a warm body spooned next to him/her
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Old 11-02-2019, 18:45   #7
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgal View Post
they did great, but let's talk about it...

i did a safety-at-sea class in which i learned that the most important thing (beyond keeping someone pointing at the MOB, having someone else make the MOB call), was to SLOW the boat down asp and circle round.

to slow the boat, it was suggested that we immediately backwind the jib and then make the turn.

i've yet had the opportunity to test this method, having learned MOB and practiced it differently with RYA

anybody?


another point: how to get the person back into the boat. any good suggestions?

i learned that, if the MOB is not too exhausted, run a line tied off on a cleat down over the side near the MOB and back up to a winch. if the MOB can stand on it, hold onto it, lean over it, one can winch in the line to help get the weight upward enough so to pull him/her on deck

We participated in a Storm Trysail Club Safety at Sea seminar with a crew of junior sailors who were not familiar with the boat. After a morning description of the "Quick-Stop" MOB retrieval process, we went out in the afternoon to give it a try. I tossed our "victim" cushion overboard in a 15+ knot breeze with the spinnaker up and called Man Overboard! The dinghy-sailor helmsman tacked immediately, with all sails standing, and turned back towards the "victim" while the crew got the spinnaker down. We were back at the cushion within 45 seconds. The dinghy-sailor helmsman was not used to the inertia of a keelboat, however, so we zipped past the cushion at better than 5 knots - enough to rip the arms off a victim if we'd been able to hold onto them. It took three passes for him to slow the boat enough to actually retrieve the cushion. Subsequent MOB drills - in the middle of a headsail change, in the middle of a gybe... improved results to retrieval in about 30 seconds.
Getting a victim back aboard is not as easy as grabbing the straps on a cushion, however. We practice MOB procedures at our club using watermelons. They approximate the size of a person's head in the water and can't be snagged with a boathook - you have to stop the boat and hold onto the slippery round shape with both hands to get it back aboard. Looping a line around a full-sized victim and hauling it in can work. I plan to ask my sailmaker for a triangular tarp that I can rig with clips to attach to my stanchion bases along one side. The "point" of the triangle will be passed under the victim, and a line attached to that can be pulled with a tackle or winch to bring even the heaviest crewman back aboard with little effort. My lifelines are also lashed at the ends so that they can be released with the swipe of a blade, allowing big things to get past them if need be.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:09   #8
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgal View Post
i did a safety-at-sea class in which i learned that the most important thing (beyond keeping someone pointing at the MOB, having someone else make the MOB call), was to SLOW the boat down asp and circle round.

to slow the boat, it was suggested that we immediately backwind the jib and then make the turn.
I had been taught a few styles, but that is my preferred method. Simply tack and keep the MOB on your beam (don't touch the sails); once the boom gybes you then head for the MOB. As psk125 noted, you'll need to scrub speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgal View Post
another point: how to get the person back into the boat. any good suggestions?

i learned that, if the MOB is not too exhausted, run a line tied off on a cleat down over the side near the MOB and back up to a winch. if the MOB can stand on it, hold onto it, lean over it, one can winch in the line to help get the weight upward enough so to pull him/her on deck
The physics of this seem terribly inefficient, as does asking someone to balance on a line. My preference would be to simply hook onto the MOB's harness or PFD's lifting becket and hoist with a pulley system or halyard.

There's a product called "MOB Lifesavers" that's simply a loop of high-strength cord fastened to the PFD and bundled up inside it; you snag it from the water with a boat hook and it solves the problem of getting a line attached to them. I'd be curious about the thoughts of others on that, but it seems the most effective option if the person isn't able to assist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgal View Post
also, following recovery, any good suggestions as to how to warm up the MOB?

i learned to strip the MOB to bare skin and warm him/her up by contact with a warm body spooned next to him/her
For hypothermia, the first rule is gentle handling (to reduce cardiac risks) and ideally keeping them horizontal. The "hypowrap" or burrito is basic first aid: strip wet clothes and bundle the person into sleeping bags or blankets. (Example: atop a sleeping bag or other padding, place them inside another sleeping bag, add another on top, and wrap the whole thing in an emergency blanket.) Hot water bottles (wrap to avoid burns) can also be added at hands and feet, but the important part is preventing further heat loss. The benefits of adding a warm body are debatable.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:28   #9
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

So I agree with others here that killing the speed is number 1 and this is something they could have done better. Having been "that guy in the water", I know how tired you can get, and how hard it is to lift yourself up to deck level. I even had to kick my boots off to lighten the load as they had filled.



With this in mind, I think they could all ditch their dingy "life jackets" and go for something designed for more serious stuff. Most of the high end jackets have an integral lifting strop - just attach a halyard and grind them back over the rail. This would have made the retrieval much easier. Their jackets were not designed for anything other than dingy sailing.
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:18   #10
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgal View Post
. . . another point: how to get the person back into the boat. any good suggestions? . . .

There are many ways to do it, and this is just one. YMMV.


We spent the summer sailing in the Arctic Ocean where this is a life and death issue.


So we practiced MOB with actual people in the water. We spent a fun morning putting everyone into the icy water one by one and hauling them out.


The method we used, which worked very well in practice, was to preventer out the boom and haul people up with a tackle rigged to an electric winch.


We hooked the tackle to the buckle of life vests. This way we popped them right out of the water, then swung them on board. It worked very well indeed, but the crotch strap of one life vest broke -- they are not designed for this. So a tackle with a strap to go through the crotch might be better. Or two loops -- one under the knees and the other under the shoulders -- which would work on a casualty without a life jacket. This needs work.


We also practiced hauling out unconscious casualties by putting a rescue swimmer in the water.



I think it's crucially important to practice this with actual people in the water. You just don't quite imagine what it's like without actually doing it.
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:55   #11
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

excellent replies here!!!

thanks everyone. much appreciated!



while we are still here, there is something else i'd like to check with you:

i read that, before sending crew into the water to recover a conscious MOB, one could attempt to get the MOB into a dingy off the stern

any thoughts?
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:31   #12
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Re: MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgal View Post
excellent replies here!!!

thanks everyone. much appreciated!



while we are still here, there is something else i'd like to check with you:

i read that, before sending crew into the water to recover a conscious MOB, one could attempt to get the MOB into a dingy off the stern

any thoughts?
One MOB is bad. Two (putting another crew in to get him) is worse. But you do what you have to do.

On a boat with high freeboard (e.g:many powerboats), getting someone into a dinghy might be easier and better than getting them bashed in the head by the swim platform while their feet get chewed by the props and outdrives. Powerboats are less likely than sailboats to have easily deployed hoisting tackle to get a victim aboard, so using a dinghy can at least get them out of the water. It depends on the dinghy, however. You don't want a dinghy that will swamp or sink, and it needs to be maneuvered next to the victim. Someone should be in the dinghy to help the victim get into it, so it's load capacity is important. Not a wonderful solution, since then both people (or more?) have to get from the dinghy to the mothership too. Lesson: don't fall off powerboats.
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