MOB - Windjammer Dublin bay 21st Jan 2019

[GILow]

Regarding the approach of lowering and controlling the sails before going back for the MOB, I think the skipper had it right.

In the sort of wind conditions evident in the video I think any kind of manoeuvring with sails up would have been downright dangerous and would have risked putting another crew member in the water, possibly with concussion or worse from the boom.

The skipper made excellent use of his ample crew to make the boat safe for retrieving the MOB.

I for one would happily sail with that guy, and I reckon his communication overall was some of the best I have ever heard on a racing boat.

[B23iL23]

So I'm a believer in practicing these things and having a set procedure that everyone on board knows.



If this was out at sea, at night, I think even this skipper and crew would have had problems. They sailed too far away from the mob for my liking - should have killed the speed (just luff the boat and spill the wind). That would have given the crew time to get sorted, take the jib in , get the engine on , all while keeping the distance between you and the mob as small as possible.



If this was at night, they would have lost sight of the mob inside 60 seconds. That's the only major issue I have with this skipper/crew (well apart from wearing buoyancy aids and not proper life jackets).

[GILow]

At night all life jackets should be fitted with water activated strobes.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by GILow

At night all life jackets should be fitted with water activated strobes.

yes, strobes (and batteries to check). in the Safety-at-sea class i took, there were a number that were compared for efficiency. one light that really stood out was a green laser. it could be seen from an incredible distance.

when it comes time to prep crew with MOB techniques, here are a couple of other things i took home with me:

if the water is very cold and you are in that oh-no moment of falling, take the deepest breath you can before hitting the water. the cold makes it near impossible otherwise for the lungs to find their full capacity if they are empty when you hit. i do not recall the percentage of increase in likelihood for surviving etc., but it was significant.

another thing, if you fall off the boat and are not hurt in relatively easy conditions, it is actually good to inform the crew of this with, "i'm ok". this way the ship knows that you are conscious, that you are not hurt. they can focus on the task of getting back to you without the added worry and will be able to think ahead as to the technique for getting you back aboard.

any other good tips?

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

There are many ways to do it, and this is just one. YMMV.


We spent the summer sailing in the Arctic Ocean where this is a life and death issue.



We also practiced hauling out unconscious casualties by putting a rescue swimmer in the water.



I think it's crucially important to practice this with actual people in the water. You just don't quite imagine what it's like without actually doing it.

i'd really like to hear more about how you did this.

i imagine that the rescue swimmer swims out to the unconscious MOB with a line connecting him to a winch on the boat (so to pull them in together). is this line tied to the swimmer around the waist or is it attached to a floating device that he takes with him?

when there is a MOB in cold waters, is there time for the swimmer to put on a wetsuit? i imagine that this would be ideal. is this a part of the drill (if there is ample crew, of course), that the designated swimmer gets into a suit?

i can imagine how the clock is really ticking in cold waters...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

i'd really like to hear more about how you did this.

i imagine that the rescue swimmer swims out to the unconscious MOB with a line connecting him to a winch on the boat (so to pull them in together). is this line tied to the swimmer around the waist or is it attached to a floating device that he takes with him?

when there is a MOB in cold waters, is there time for the swimmer to put on a wetsuit? i imagine that this would be ideal. is this a part of the drill (if there is ample crew, of course), that the designated swimmer gets into a suit?

i can imagine how the clock is really ticking in cold waters...

I don't claim that we have state of the art procedure. We kind of made it up, and there are certainly better procedures, from people with more experience or professional knowledge.


But what we did worked well in practice.


First of all, in the Arctic, we generally wore drysuits on deck, so we were ready.



Rescue swimmer ties a rope on a non-lifejacket harness, jumps in, swims to the victim. He/she is either holding the end of the tackle, or we rig that separately and throw it to him/her.



Our tackle was a block and tackle pre-rigged and kept at all times in the cockpit table. Boom is preventered out and tackle is operated from the end of the boom.


Rescue swimmer gets the lifting tackle onto the victim and stands by as the victim is lifted.


AFter the victim is onboard, then the swimmer comes on board. The person we designated for this job on board was so athletic, that she could pull herself on board, herself, even dripping wet and in a drysuit. That is not typical! SOP would be to use the lifting tackle again. We also experimented with lifting victim and swimmer at once, and with our gear, it works, but I think if there's time it's better to do them separately.




We practiced quite a bit, and were eventually able to get through the whole routine including rigging the tackle in just a couple of minutes. Practicing stuff like this is really important. It is remarkable how prone to screwing it up you are, if you haven't practiced it, even if you very well understand in your mind, what to do.




Another important point is how the operation is organized. According to our procedure, the skipper manages it and directs the action if he is on deck, but otherwise it is whoever has the watch. We made every single crewmember practice being in command of the operation.

[B23iL23]

Dockhead - that's good info. Did you every try using the lifting strop on the lifejacket? (assuming your jackets had one).


I thought about attaching a halyard to the strop and then using a powered winch to pluck them out of the water.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Dockhead - that's good info. Did you every try using the lifting strop on the lifejacket? (assuming your jackets had one).


I thought about attaching a halyard to the strop and then using a powered winch to pluck them out of the water.

Yes, we did!


We learned that they definitely should be used!


When you lift by the ring for your tether, at the buckle, the weight is carried by the crotch strap, VERY uncomfortable for males (ouch!), and we broke one of the crotch straps.


Definitely use the lifting straps, and consider putting a loop of something through the victim's crotch.


Halyard would work in a pinch, but the downside is that if the boat is rolling, you will smash the person into the side. Preventering out the boom seemed better to us -- you pick up the person clear of anything you could smash him into, then when he's well above the water, swing the boom in to bring him on board.


That's more of a faff, however, than a halyard, so maybe a halyard is even a better choice if the boat is not rolling around.

[B23iL23]

Ok good info. My thoughts on males going over the rail - if they are silly enough to end up over the side, then to hell with their manhood!


Anyway, the lifting strop is the way to go or the "lifesling" attached the halyard. You could put a snatch block at the end of the boom and run the halyard through it but getting this set up after someone has gone in the water would be a tough ask.


I would use the halyard, drag the casualty close to the boat and hoist once they are in contact. At least then you can control any swinging.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, we did!

We learned that they definitely should be used!

When you lift by the ring for your tether, at the buckle, the weight is carried by the crotch strap, VERY uncomfortable for males (ouch!), and we broke one of the crotch straps.


Definitely use the lifting straps, and consider putting a loop of something through the victim's crotch.


Halyard would work in a pinch, but the downside is that if the boat is rolling, you will smash the person into the side. Preventering out the boom seemed better to us -- you pick up the person clear of anything you could smash him into, then when he's well above the water, swing the boom in to bring him on board.


That's more of a faff, however, than a halyard, so maybe a halyard is even a better choice if the boat is not rolling around.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Ok good info. My thoughts on males going over the rail - if they are silly enough to end up over the side, then to hell with their manhood!


Anyway, the lifting strop is the way to go or the "lifesling" attached the halyard. You could put a snatch block at the end of the boom and run the halyard through it but getting this set up after someone has gone in the water would be a tough ask.


I would use the halyard, drag the casualty close to the boat and hoist once they are in contact. At least then you can control any swinging.

I think you use whatever you've got. If you don't have a snatch block handy, then you can certainly use a halyard, but you have to be carefully about the smashing into the side problem, which could kill the victim.



And certainly nothing wrong with putting the halyard through a snatch block. I don't quite understand why you think of rigging this as a "tough ask". I think it's actually pretty good. Note, however, that I keep a dyneema strop with low friction eye permanently rigged to the end of my boom for all kinds of miscellaneous lifting purposes, so on my boat it would be particularly easy.





As to the LifeSling: I have and practice with a LifeSling, which is my Plan A for a casualty without a life jacket, but I don't like much that it lifts you under the shoulders. This can apparently lead to blood draining out to your legs and a heart attack, if the casualty is in shock. I might add a loop to my life sling which would allow catching the casualty under the knees.

[wolfgal]

very good, thank you!

yes, dry suits.

Dockhead, your method seems effective.

would be wonderful to see your process on video. if ever you make one.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

very good, thank you!

yes, dry suits.

Dockhead, your method seems effective.

would be wonderful to see your process on video. if ever you make one.

We could have been better with dry suits on our trip, I guess. In water that cold -- +1 or +2 in the Arctic Ocean -- it seems to me that MOB is simply not survivable without a dry suit, unless it's really calm weather and you're really lucky being picked up almost instantly.


I had never used a dry suit before and I was amazed at how it isolates you from the sea. I was really perfectly comfortable floating in the icy water. Only problem is your head -- you need to have at least a scuba hood on, and who is going to wear that all day on deck? I haven't figured that out yet.


I don't know if anyone made any video of our practice. I'll ask the crew. Would indeed be interesting to watch.

[Flagman101]

Let me be the devils advocate here.
What is so great about the recovery?

Great video that illustrates how hard it is to recover a MOB.
But I would not call it a great recovery.

Has a sailing instructor, I see a bunch of things that were not text book MOB recovery.

I do understand that text book and real life sometimes call for different approaches.
My intention is not to say they were not good or that I am better, but to use this has a constructive way to be a better sailor

To keep this constructive and not just criticizing, can anyone point out things that would have made this MOB more effective and and faster?
And please any points made should be with an explanation has to why.

[Flagman101]

Please go to other thread for replies

[requiem]

Re: lifting strops; I've yet to see a USCG-approved PFD come with them. In fact, I have a distinct recollection from comparing two almost-identical Crewsaver models (Crewfit 40 Pro and the Crewfit 180N Pro) that one difference that really stood out was the lack of a lifting strop in the US model.

Having a good way to haul someone out of the water is especially a concern in cold water; it's easy enough to hook a fender but harder to get a line on someone who might not be able to assist.