MOB for Couples

[Fidsplice]

So many theories, so many gadgets. So little practical experience. Probably because the chances of a survivor contributing are so low. I have never done MOB in “anger”, and hope I never have to. Like so many sage contributors.

My “position” now:
Consider you are naked, and two handed. No tether, no gadgets.
On board person - Stop the boat. Head to wind. Spinnaker? Wrapped around the forestay! Stop! Stop! Stop!

1. Have a scramble net permanently attached to the toe rail. 2m square of 5cm mesh netting. Aluminium bars whipped to opposite sides of the net, one bar at the toe rail, the other end loose. Velcro strips to keep it tidy, and to allow a person in the water to pull it free. Loop of floating line on the lower bar to allow a hoist to be attached.
2. Able MOB can scramble up net.
3. Disabled MOB can hang on and be rolled up with hoist in due course
4. Unconcious MOB if fate is with you, may be able to be scooped in net and rolled up (miracle of miracles!)

Undeniable advise of so many contributors: don’t go over!

[Pelagic]

Some additional incentive to get back on board.[emoji6]

https://youtu.be/54YezX7HeSI

[Buzzman]

Perhaps, as a suggestion, you could combine several of the excellent ideas on this thread?
Remembering that we are talking about 'MOB for couples', so one crew on wathc, one off watch (in most likely-MOB-situations), so an inflatable lifevest with MOB is a no-brainer.
Coupled with a sling/ladder to assist them back on board.

Having said that, as a solo sailor, I'm taken by the ideas of the trailing line (Heyerdahl) and the notion of the drogue to 'stop' the boat (posted up-thread) ... so I'm thinking combine the trailing line with the drogue ... a floating line of say 150m, bright coloured and perhaps with some additional floats, providing 'handholds' ... swimming behind the boat, across the track, should locate the floating line ... hang on until the tug that the deploys the drone and its additional line, then start hand-hauling back to the boat.

We know this is not feasible on a fast-moving boat, so stopping the boat should be a key for a solo sailor.

And maybe that should be on a separate "MOB for solo sailors thread"?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Having said that, as a solo sailor, I'm taken by the ideas of the trailing line (Heyerdahl) and the notion of the drogue to 'stop' the boat (posted up-thread) ... so I'm thinking combine the trailing line with the drogue ... a floating line of say 150m, bright coloured and perhaps with some additional floats, providing 'handholds' ... swimming behind the boat, across the track, should locate the floating line ... hang on until the tug that the deploys the drone and its additional line, then start hand-hauling back to the boat.

We know this is not feasible on a fast-moving boat, so stopping the boat should be a key for a solo sailor.

And maybe that should be on a separate "MOB for solo sailors thread"?

I've tested such a system (stop the boat with a parachute and last-chance-line) at up to 10 knots on an F-24. My impression, and calculation, was that it would have worked up to about 16 knots, but I didn't want to break anything expensive. I've tested the system up to 9 knots with my 9000-pound cruising cat.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...e_12534-1.html

This article was intended to be nothing more than proof of concept and to encourage thinking.


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Another partial fallacy in this thread is any assumption that the weather is terrible. If it is, yes, you are in big, big trouble, and possibly well cooked. You are going to need a PLB and a whole lot of luck. But people more often fall off in more benign conditions, because that is when they go sailing.


We should discuss the reality of falling off in a storm, but also the possibility of just tripping over our own feet. I've never gone MOB or had anyone go, but I think about it. The last time I sailed it was pretty boisterous, with speeds up to 13 knots (15-20 knots wind). While we stayed in the cockpit we were not tethered. But I did tether when it was time to reef, because recovering me, even in these moderate conditions, inshore, would have been a terrible handful for my lone partner.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by thinwater

........

Another partial fallacy in this thread is any assumption that the weather is terrible. If it is, yes, you are in big, big trouble, and possibly well cooked. You are going to need a PLB and a whole lot of luck. But people more often fall off in more benign conditions, because that is when they go sailing.


We should discuss the reality of falling off in a storm, but also the possibility of just tripping over our own feet. I've never gone MOB or had anyone go, but I think about it. The last time I sailed it was pretty boisterous, with speeds up to 13 knots (15-20 knots wind). While we stayed in the cockpit we were not tethered. But I did tether when it was time to reef, because recovering me, even in these moderate conditions, inshore, would have been a terrible handful for my lone partner.

This is a case when percentages and majority of time for most sailors isn't very relevant. Of course the majority of MOBs occur in benign conditions inshore. That is where the majority of boats and people are. Most boats never go offshore so they have zero exposure to offshore conditions. The best MOB precautions and recovery techniques for a two man crew has to be based on where you spend your cruising, ie your exposure. For long distance cruisers that spend days after days on passage this means dealing with a broader range of possibilities. Being 500 miles offshore in ugly weather with your partner in the water is not the time to remember that the odds are small that this could happen.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Paul L

This is a case when percentages and majority of time for most sailors isn't very relevant. Of course the majority of MOBs occur in benign conditions inshore. That is where the majority of boats and people are. Most boats never go offshore so they have zero exposure to offshore conditions. The best MOB precautions and recovery techniques for a two man crew has to be based on where you spend your cruising, ie your exposure. For long distance cruisers that spend days after days on passage this means dealing with a broader range of possibilities. Being 500 miles offshore in ugly weather with your partner in the water is not the time to remember that the odds are small that this could happen.

Over the past eight years of cruising semi full-time, I can only think of one or two days maybe totaling 16 hours or so, when we wouldn't have been able to fetch the MOB back on board via the swim ladder and sugar scoop due to waves being of short duration and over 12 ft in height. Since those days, we've become even better at avoiding conditions most would consider to be foul weather.

So why spend all of our rescue training on a recovery situation that in all likelihood will never again happen? We should train for the common occurrences and continue to avoid the bad stuff. IMHO.

Another way to rescue a MOB, would be for us to lower the RIB tender off the stern davits and go fetch them, or just have the MOB climb onto the tender using the tender swim ladder after it's lowered off the stern... which can easily be done by one person.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Over the past eight years of cruising semi full-time, I can only think of one or two days maybe totaling 16 hours or so, when we wouldn't have been able to fetch the MOB back on board via the swim ladder and sugar scoop due to waves being of short duration and over 12 ft in height. Since those days, we've become even better at avoiding conditions most would consider to be foul weather.

So why spend all of our rescue training on a recovery situation that in all likelihood will never again happen? We should train for the common occurrences and continue to avoid the bad stuff. IMHO.

Another way to rescue a MOB, would be for us to lower the RIB tender off the stern davits and go fetch them, or just have the MOB climb onto the tender using the tender swim ladder after it's lowered off the stern... which can easily be done by one person.

Like I said, if you don't go offshore you aren't exposed to an MOB offshore. How many times in your 12 years of cruising have you done continuous passages more than 3 nights long? I'll bet it's pretty few where you sail.
For our cruising over the last 8 years the times I have felt the most at risk for an MOB situation have always been with most or all of the following conditions
1. offshore
2. something has broken or jammed and requires a manual fix now
3. high winds and enough seas to make the platform unstable
4. small crew, i.e. 2
5. weather induced fatigue

I have never felt at any reasonable risk of going overboard in benign conditions, so for me it would not make sense to focus on simple rescues in easy conditions.
To each his own.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Another way to rescue a MOB, would be for us to lower the RIB tender off the stern davits and go fetch them, or just have the MOB climb onto the tender using the tender swim ladder after it's lowered off the stern... which can easily be done by one person.

Just so this post doesn’t go unnoticed by those following this thread, lowering the dinghy off a davit system to fetch a MOB works well by providing the MOB an easy means to get back on board. But I’d be reluctant to actually cast off from the mother ship to do this if I was the only one aboard. I’d leave it attached by a long rope, then haul it in close to the side of the mothership and let it provide a stepping stone for the MOB.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Like I said, if you don't go offshore you aren't exposed to an MOB offshore. How many times in your 12 years of cruising have you done continuous passages more than 3 nights long? I'll bet it's pretty few where you sail.
For our cruising over the last 8 years the times I have felt the most at risk for an MOB situation have always been with most or all of the following conditions
1. offshore
2. something has broken or jammed and requires a manual fix now
3. high winds and enough seas to make the platform unstable
4. small crew, i.e. 2
5. weather induced fatigue

I have never felt at any reasonable risk of going overboard in benign conditions, so for me it would not make sense to focus on simple rescues in easy conditions.
To each his own.

Modern foul weather avoidance, maybe it would be a good topic for this forum? Discussing the techo stuff now available to us, which wasn’t around just a few years ago. Would you like to begin one or should I?

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by Franziska

@Paul

I beg to differ.

Just crank up the volume to the max or wear a headphone (and only in this situation!!!).

Let's say you made 1/2Nm way before you could bring her around.
Now than, at night or daylight you concentrate fully on looking on a fiddly small screen while steering.
Instead, you could in parallel look out for the flash or the person while homing in on her or him.
At close range use your eyes or the plotter.

@Wolfgal

Thanks, I also posted it under feature requests in OpenCPN.
Might be something those clever people can add to the the AIS module.
Would be the cheapest solution.

Actually, in the modern world, you could have a synthesized voice reading bearing and distance to you.

Preferably in a soothing voice;-)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Just so this post doesn’t go unnoticed by those following this thread, lowering the dinghy off a davit system to fetch a MOB works well by providing the MOB an easy means to get back on board. But I’d be reluctant to actually cast off from the mother ship to do this if I was the only one aboard. I’d leave it attached by a long rope, then haul it in close to the side of the mothership and let it provide a stepping stone for the MOB.

I don't know anyone who goes offshore with a dinghy in davits, and I couldn't recommend it.


However, if you DO happen to have a dinghy in davits, and the conditions are calm enough to use the dinghy, then this is an excellent technique. I actually recovered an MOB into a dinghy (in fact, he managed to roll into the dinghy himself). It works really well. It is an entirely different job to get someone over dinghy freeboard, than to get someone over your boat's rail.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Modern foul weather avoidance, maybe it would be a good topic for this forum? Discussing the techo stuff now available to us, which wasn’t around just a few years ago. Would you like to begin one or should I?

Above a certain latitude and beyond a certain passage length, it is not possible to avoid strong weather with any certainty. In fact, if you cross the Atlantic West to East by the Northern Route, even in the ideal season, you are statistically certain to encounter at least F8 or F9 and you had better be ready for more.


If you never sail passages more than 3 days long, and if you have time to wait for really good weather windows, then yes, it is possible to avoid strong weather, but sometimes you don't want to -- a good boat and a good crew can deal with F8 without drama and may plan to head out into one. But there are risks, and I agree with Paul's assessment of the risk factors. Some of us do need to be prepared to deal with MOB in strong weather.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't know anyone who goes offshore with a dinghy in davits, and I couldn't recommend it.


However, if you DO happen to have a dinghy in davits, and the conditions are calm enough to use the dinghy, then this is an excellent technique. I actually recovered an MOB into a dinghy (in fact, he managed to roll into the dinghy himself). It works really well. It is an entirely different job to get someone over dinghy freeboard, than to get someone over your boat's rail.

Please review my original post, I did not recommend having a dinghy on davits off shore. That said, what would you do on a boat like ours with a 12.5ft aluminum bottom dinghy with a 40hp outboard while making a crossing? We cover it on the davits, then do our best to steer clear of foul weather, which seems to work. Like most active cruisers, we don’t head out looking for trouble.... we actively avoid it.

I’m glad you agree with the dinghy MOB rescue technique, hopefully now, others will try it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Please review my original post, I did not recommend having a dinghy on davits off shore. That said, what would you do on a boat like ours with a 12.5ft aluminum bottom dinghy with a 40hp outboard while making a crossing? We cover it on the davits, then do our best to steer clear of foul weather, which seems to work. Like most active cruisers, we don’t head out looking for trouble.... we avoid it.

Well, I had a dinghy like that, and took it across the North Sea in davits something like 6 times.


I got rid of it.


For coastal cruising in the Med, carrying such a dinghy in davits is no problem, and it's a wonderful luxury to have a large, powerful wheel-steered dinghy. I still miss mine. But for ocean crossing, or any serious passage making, you might want to leave it at home.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Above a certain latitude and beyond a certain passage length, it is not possible to avoid strong weather with any certainty. In fact, if you cross the Atlantic West to East by the Northern Route, even in the ideal season, you are statistically certain to encounter at least F8 or F9 and you had better be ready for more.


If you never sail passages more than 3 days long, and if you have time to wait for really good weather windows, then yes, it is possible to avoid strong weather, but sometimes you don't want to -- a good boat and a good crew can deal with F8 without drama and may plan to head out into one. But there are risks, and I agree with Paul's assessment of the risk factors. Some of us do need to be prepared to deal with MOB in strong weather.

BUT it’s unlikely that even half the participants on this forum even own a boat, and the remaining half who do, only an extremely small percentage will ever venture beyond 50 miles from their home port. So shouldn’t we place an emphasis on discussing issues regarding safety that pertain to the majority, rather than what the extreme situations the minority might find themselves in?